[KrisW]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Judge
	BTW - the ONLY ways to zero a spin are: 1 - failing to stall the plane (snap roll entry, etc.), no stall break visible to the judges. 2 - Failure to establish autorotation 3 - cumulative (or any single) errors) in track greater than 90 degrees Things you DO NOT zero a spin for: 1 - dropping nose before wing starts to drop, UNLESS the nose falls more than 90 degrees, or the drop PLUS the existing downgrades on the entry line are greater than 90 degrees. It has NOTHING to do with the horizon per se. If the nose is pointed up at 60 degrees (extreme for example) and the nose drops 20 degrees before the wing starts to drop (to 40 degrees above the horizon), that is 2 points. If the nose is at 10 degrees (above the horizon) and the nose drops 20 degrees (to 10 degrees below the horizon) the downgrade is guess what?? 2 points just like before. 2 - Dropping wing in one direction then "forcing" the spin in the other direction. As long as the plane stays stalled (and I will happily discuss how this is very possible) and the total errors do not exceed 90 degrees, then this is NOT a zero. Along with "forcing" the spin in a certain direction after the nose starts to drop this is a classic sign of a forced entry which is downgraded per the normal rules of 0.5 points per 5 degrees. So if the plane drops the nose and the left wing simultaneously and the wing drops 20 degrees before the pilot "forces" the spin in the other direction, the downgrade is 2 points, NOT A ZERO. 3 - The plane does not stop, i.e., it continues to move forward. THERE IS NOT CRITERIA FOR THE PLANE TO STOP FORWARD MOTION in the spin. Now things can get ugly in a hurry. Say the entry line deviated 10 degrees in track, 10 degrees on climb and the lateral track was off 10 degrees. The pilot is starting with a 7 now. Plane stalls. Nose drops 10 degrees before the left wing drops. That is another 1 point off. Then the pilot forces the spin to the right after the left wing has dropped 10 degrees. That is another point. He now has a 5. Plane over rotates the spin by 10 degrees. Minus 1 more point (=4). And let's say the downline after the spin was 10 degrees off the vertical. Minus 1 more point for a 3 now. Then the pilot pulls the exit and that line is climbing 10 degrees, and off track laterally by 10 degrees with a 10 degree bank to the wings. Minus 3 more points. And THAT'S a ZERO!! The point is that judged correctly it is very easy to lose LOTS of points in a hurry. Let's not try to make up stuff or invent new rules.

So, when will YOU consider the "forward mush" to no longer be a spin but flying forward after a stall break, then forced into an autorotation later on? No one has ever answered this for me, not even at seminars, but it definitley goes past what the "Spirit" of the manuvers description dictates.