Let's get it going in here

[JeeUm]

Hey guys, this forum needs some posts, and I know that there are some of you out there with questions regarding your foray into the 3D flight envelope.

[Biff]

I got one!! Tell me why it is some planes harrier better than others? Also have had planes that do this better inverted than up right. Is it possible to have too much throw for 3D? Honestly not just trying for filler, I'd like to know and have felt like too much of a dip stick to ask. There,,I'm a dip stick. Anyone else have a question you're embarassed to ask?

[Cracky]

Its not 3D but would someone walk me through an upright/horizontal negative snap.....

grassyass

[STR8HUCKIN]

airplanes harrier better inverted because the verticle stabilizer is in more free flowing air.... the air doesnt have to travel around the fuse.

[xtreem3d]

bob,
IMO it is possible to have too much throw for 3d, i also wonder if the huge counterbalances we see on rudders affects flight negatively. in my case i use a sieko on my rudders so i'm not hurting for power and don't need a huge counterbalance to aid in deflection...seems like while in knife edge the rudder is "tugging" in 2 different directions because of the big counterbalance.......but that's just me....

[Biff]

Thanks dudes! Time to bring Animal in for the neg. from upright Fick question!

[Animal Jesky]

Biff,

As for the negative snap from inverted it is kinda tricky to make the airplane "break" and maintain without dropping while in the snap. We had a maneuver in the masters 2 years ago that was 2 negative snaps from upright. I watched many people come in a little noise high about 5 degrees and show a slight negative break and snap. It seem that they were letting off the elevator after the break. This works great. as the rudder and ail seem to keep the tail in the cone that the judges look for. another thing to do would probably be to come in a little slower then normal. I hope this helps.

I will anwser this question a little better but I have to do some school work.

Andrew

[crazyextra]

lets get it going!!!
lets get it going in here!!
lets get it going!!!
lets get it going in here!!

[F3AFlyer7]

Biff,

I'm not sure specifically why some planes rock more than others but I do know this:

The reason that planes rock is an inbalance of lift between the two wingtips. If a plane is locked in a harrier perfectly (no wing rock), the airflow over both wingtips are equal, resulting in equal pressure ofer the top and bottom of the wing, resulting in no wing rock. When the plane begins to rock, one wingtip starts flying while the other is in a stall, causing the flying one to move upward and the stalled one to plummit. Once the stalled wing regains sufficient airflow again, it begins to reverse its direction thus creating the back and forth oscilation. One thing to note is that the more "higher alpaha" or the more of an angle of attack you put the nose of the aircraft in, the less ability the wings have to create lift. And because the wingtip is such a small part of the total wing area, it stops flying sooner than the wing root. Therefore, the higher angle of attack you fly the airplane in a harrier, the easier it should be to lock it in a harrier. The hard part is finding the sweet spot as to keep a forward moving track. This is why an airplane begins to "lock in" as you pull farther into a hover. I don't know where I just pulled this all from.

[F3AFlyer7]

Just started thinking about another thing....

I think one of the issues that planes fly inverted harriers better than right side up is because of the vertical mass of the aircraft. Most aerobatic style aircraft are slightly low wing aircraft (compared to the overall fuselage mass above and below the wing). When an aircraft is flying in an upright harrier, the mass is above the wing, and just like a the cricket thingy in badmitton, the side with a greater mass wants to fall toward the ground. When the plane is inverted, the mass is below the wing and is sort of weighting it down in that direction. The larger mass wants to be toward the ground. Thus is it easier to harrier a plane with a lower style wing inverted than upright. Have you ever thought about trying to harrier a flat wing high wing trainer inverted?? It would probably rock like crazy because of the overall mass of the fuselage relative to the wing. It would probably harrier upright RELATIVELY well.

[gstjohn]

since were on the topic of stupid and embarassing questions, (thanks biff) what is the best way to remember the control inputs for a plane that is belly towards the pilot in a torque roll. I have the canopy side towards the pilot down great, and slowly getting side on but when the plane rolls to the belly I usually add more aileron to speed up the roll and get out of the situation or I give the wrong command first followed by the right one but by then its too late and the plane is either in a really weird attitude or I am adding full power and bailing out. I have been practicing on G2 here at my house, and G3 at my Job (local hobbytown) when were slow at nights. it seems to be getting better but there has got to be some sort of reminder as to which way the rudder and elevator go.

Thanks for all of the help,
Greg

[bodywerks]

Fly the tail when the belly is facing you. You have already trained your brain to react normally when the canopy is facing you, i.e., if the nose goes left, correct with right rudder. If it goes away from you, pull it back with up elevator. Therefore, fly the nose when the canopy is facing you in a hover and the tail when the belly is facing you. That way, when you watch the tail go left, your normal reaction will be to go right. If the tail is coming toward you, you will naturally "push" it back with down elevator.
This works for all sorts of other configurations, too. Think about when you first learned R/C stuff, whether it was cars, planes, boats, or whatever, The biggest obstical for most people is knowing your lefts and ringht, etc, when the model is coming at you. The same obsticle repeats itself for every new axis and direction that you put that model on. Eventually, it just comes natural. So, the same should be achievable with all attitudes of flight - it just takes some brain-training.
I use the "fly the tail, fly the nose" method for almost all attitudes of flight when it comes to learning my rudder. The trick is remembering when to fly the nose and when to fly the tail! Here's the basics:
canopy facing you:
on uplines=nose
downlines=tail
belly facing you: opposite of the above
upright flying:
away from you=nose
toward you=tail
inverted flying: you get the point