Club Rules & Penalties

[Jamieman]

Hi all.
Our club is revising certain rules/penalties for breaches of basic standards. Eg flying behind the flight line, not calling intentions etc.
I was wondering what other clubs do, how they enforce the rules & what penalties apply.
Your help would be much appreciated.

[Biff]

Jamieman, club rules/penalaties are a double edge sword. Once you get past AMA dictates you are swimming in shark infested waters! We all have the responsability to our members to provide a safe place to fly. What you need to watch out for is a set of rules that alienate one facet or another. A list of rules a mile long makes them tough to remember/enforce. This can also open a BIG can of worms.

Penalties assume the rules are going to be broken. There is really no excuse for flying over the pits for example. Folks signed of as solo pilots too soon are the greatest offender of that rule. Perhaps more training is better than instituting penalties?

It's been my experience that AMA's rules are common sense and pretty easy to understand. More club rules start out with the best intention, but end up causing problems. Going to as many fields as I have in the last 30 odd years has shown me time and time again that the clubs who concentrate more on training the new guy completely have very few problems. Education and not more rules is the best way to create a safe club that gets along well.

If you look at statistics, most accidents causing injury can be prevented by education. Most of the emphasis a trainer pilot gets from a club is flying. We need to concentrate more on the ground side as well. How to maintain a plane, how to properly inspect aircraft, battery testing before each flight, how to make sure you get the correct pin, how to safley start your engine, what to do before you walk accross the flightline to get a plane, common sense to most of us, but these things need to be taught.

Getting signed off as a solo pilot at most fields involves taking off,flying in circles and landing by yourself. Is that enough? The folks who have flown over the flight line are usually discombobulated. I don't know of ever seeing somebody do that on purpose. Better training for that pilot is our job!

I'm not at all banging the reason your club is looking at more rules and penalties for offenders. I'm simply saying look at what you want to happen and figure out the best approach. If you really want a safe flying field,, educate! Make getting signed off a real accomplishment! Get signed off for flying and ground safety instead of take off landing.

My opinion is we have enough rules and very few pilots fly dangerously on purpose. It's the guy who doesn't practice preventive maintenance or tries to fly solo too soon that we need to help. Thoughts?

[Ion01]

I agree Biff!! It doesn't matter whether you are talking about safety at a flying field, workplace, or home or whether your are talking about preventive maintainance at the field, workplace, or home; it all comes down to being educated and practicing what you learn until it becomes a habit. It much like trying to make people wear safety glasses in the shop area at work. You don't have to have some huge penalty for not wearing them because most that don't, don't wear them because they don't realise the dangers and how big of a risk it really is. When they learn how bad one accident can be that would have been prevented by glasses, they will wear them without penalties. Too it becomes such a habit that no one thinks about putting them on, they just always do. It is the same with all other kinds of safety, even at the flying field.

[Jamieman]

Thanks guys.
We don't have a big problem with people flying behind the flight, but on the same token it has happened a couple of times in the last 2yrs & it has ALWAYS been because tha plane was out of control. The newer members we have are well trained & this issue has arisen from the older members. (Been in the club many many years).
We are just unsure of how to approach it as naturally there is already the rule "No flying behind the flight line."
Perhaps a consequence for that person if that rule is broken. eg ban for 1 week????

[Biff]

Jamie, Sorry to harp on this but please understand it's coming from experience. You can't pass rules to outlaw accidents. If we passed a law saying no more traffic accidents starting tomorrow what would happen? Accidents are accidents. All the rules in the world won't change that. The AMA has been around for a long time. They have folks that do nothing but study what happened and what could have prevented it in accidents. They have a set of guide lines that they are comfortable with. I fully support those and trust all chartered clubs do like wise. If there was a real need for more regs (other than noise,,don't get me started on that one!) they would have them. Having a penalty for accidents is like sending a person to jail over a driving accident. Can it help?? No. Asking a dues paying,signed off member to sit a couple weeks out for an accident does nothing but adds insult to injury. Trust me dude, education is king. Just a hunch, but is there new people in positions of authority in your club, or was there a close call recently?

[66stang]

I also think way to many people try to save the plane, but forget about the harm it can do to another. If one of my planes goes out of control, or has some type of failure. I would crash it away from people. Perfect example is my 300 Extra. I lost an aileron and let her go in to a field. I just did not feel confident on bringing it towards the pit area, people and cars.

[66stang]

I wanted to add. I wouldn't trash a good plane that was savable. My extra was just too squirley to take a chance.

[les2097]

Biff,

Look at your own home page... there posted is a pic of a fellow touching the tail of a flying plane... Isn't this against AMA rules....?

LES

[notorious_benny]

snifff snifff......... I smell a spoil sport!!!!!

Besides Jamieman lives in Australia, we have rules and guidelines but there is no specific rule against touching a flying model. It just has to be 30 metres away from the public and pits while it is flying!!

And the bloke Vela who is touching the tail of the flying plane isnt in America either. Glad to say I dont live in an over legislated/ litigious country!!!

[Temptation]

There is not a whole lot more to add to what Biff said. I think he covered it all. The only problem is, there isn't anything common about common sense. I think everyone of us has crossed the flight line at one point or another, and I am sure it was an accident. I know I have, and it was never done intentionally. I belong to a club that has WAY to many rules. This also can lead to people inturpeting the rules in a way they were not intended to be. This can really cause problems between club members. Just maintain the rules that the AMA has put in place and respect them. Fly safe, fly smart, and you will have a very safe and fun enviroment to enjoy with your fellow club members. It is unhealthy to create new rules that will punish the club as a whole because an incident happened. I couldn't agree with Biff more on the Education is better that punishment anyday. Punishment works when an act was melishious.

Have fun,

Mike Darr

[3ddd]

be real careful what you say about another man's country

[notorious_benny]

What?........ its true ( I am not being slanderous) and Australia is unfortunately going down the same path.

The New Zealanders have got it sorted. They have a cap on how much anybody can sue for damages, its like 200 000 or 250 000 bucks...... pretty smart if you ask me.
Imagine how much easier it is to gain public liabilty cover when there is a cap like that in place.