120" 3W QQ Yak Snaps

[bob knudsen]

Garrett,

Thanks for the info. I think I am real close on the elevator and rudder, but I am sure that I have closer to 20 degrees on the ailerons. At 35 degrees I can't imagine being able to see it go around, but I will jack it up some more and give it a try. Thank you for your help.

Big Bob

[3dubya]

Rudder and aileron only auto rotations with a jolt of elevator at the start, got to love it, it keeps the die hard snap police happy with the "gotta see the pitch at the start" then you come out clean for you don't have the dregs of the elevator still in. Most of the top fliers in USA do it this way i was just told recently by a guy who flys with a lot of good fliers. Hard to make look good and honest, but its smart. lol its called unloading the snap, but funny when it happens at the start of rotation this unload. I reckon the easiest way to see if someone has snaped is the big deceleration of airspeed beyond a 3/4 rotation. The planes haul up a fair bit.

[psk560]

Here are the throws for the 3w yak that QQ emailed me... I was nervous about my test flight so I just emailed him. He replied very quick and I really appreciated his expert advice...

About throws. general model aileron 28 degree, elevator 8 degree rudder 25 degree. 3D flying aileron 45 degree, elevator 55 degree, rudder 50 degree.


For my test flight, I put in a little less elevator. In order to get the snaps to break better I had to put in more elevator throws. I measured it and QQ was right, 8 degrees. Balance may make a difference though.


Good luck,
Craig

[Wayne]

This plane does not have any trouble snapping with the correct set up.
Its one of the best flying planes out there I think.
(my buddy flew one all last summer and I flew it a lot)

He was around 25 degrees on his ailerons. 11 degrees up and 13 degrees down on his elevators and I dont remember what his rudder was deflecting in degrees.
Nothing a typical though.

[3D-Seth]

You said that you hit elevator then release it as you put in ailerons and rudder? That will make it look funky. In one of your earlier posts, you said Mike McConville said this was the way to "cheat" snaps. Keyword there is cheat, and if it is anywhere near obvious, you will be zeroed. I do a sweeping motion when I snap - hit elevator then I move ailerons/rudder to corners together as I slowly release elevator through the whole snap. In the intermediate sequence, we have 2 positive snaps, and one negative snap, and I havent zeroed any figure yet. On my 102" QQ Yak, I have around 25 deg up and down in ailerons between 10-15 deg up and down for elevator, and the counterbalance on my rudder only moves about a thumbs width off of the vertical fin so around 10-15 deg of rudder too. Do you have a sim? If so I might be able to make a recording and show you how I do my snaps . . . .

Hope this helps!!!
Seth

[Reza]

Bob,

Rates that Craig gave you are the ones Quqiue has been using. Garrett rates are also great. My understand from Quique is this:

you need very little elevator just to break, you need little rudder and lots of aileron in compare to the two others(elev,rudd).

You need to be quick on the sticks. I have a video of a 1 1/4 snap that I did with my 102". If I could extract that part out, I will post it for you. I know you won't need 1 1/4 but it will give you an idea how quicker the ailerons are in compare to the rest. BTW, since I am not an expert in IMAC I am a little reluctant to post it just not to get in trouble by experts criticizing it. If I did post it, it would be to show you the rate comparison of different surfaces!

Thank you,
Reza

[Reza]

Here's the video Bob
www.RCModelAviator.com/Videos/Snap.wmv

This was not in any IMAC event and may not be IMAC friendly but the rates are Quique's recommended rates for the 102".

Thank you,
Reza

[JHVC]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Reza
	Here's the video Bob www.RCModelAviator.com/Videos/Snap.wmv This was not in any IMAC event and may not be IMAC friendly but the rates are Quique's recommended rates for the 102". Thank you, Reza

Man, I´m scared!!!! Really nice

Regards from Mexico!
Humberto

[bob knudsen]

Hi Reza,

Thanks for the information. I have made about 10 flights in the last 2 days and when I checked my throws I had 18 degrees of ailerons and 10 degrees of elevator. I left the elevator alone, but the most aileron travel I can get without redoing my linkage is 23 degrees. At these rates it certainly goes around a lot faster than it use to, but I had to go to 90% expo so that they weren't too touchy when just making aileron corrections (I hate this). I will try taking some of the elevator out to get down to the 8 degrees that is recommended. It is hard to tell when you do the snap in the video--are you hitting up elevator first and then the corners or are you going to the corners first? I do have a 1-1/4 snap, but it is on a straight downline right before the roller. Thanks again--I appreciate any and all tips.

Big Bob

[Reza]

Bob,

What radio are you using? I have a better solution for your expo problem. In general too much expo can take the precision out of flying. Do you use a radio that you can define any type of mixing?

Reza

[BigBird]

	Quote: Originally Posted by bob knudsen
	Hi Reza, Thanks for the information. I have made about 10 flights in the last 2 days and when I checked my throws I had 18 degrees of ailerons and 10 degrees of elevator. I left the elevator alone, but the most aileron travel I can get without redoing my linkage is 23 degrees. At these rates it certainly goes around a lot faster than it use to, but I had to go to 90% expo so that they weren't too touchy when just making aileron corrections (I hate this). I will try taking some of the elevator out to get down to the 8 degrees that is recommended. It is hard to tell when you do the snap in the video--are you hitting up elevator first and then the corners or are you going to the corners first? I do have a 1-1/4 snap, but it is on a straight downline right before the roller. Thanks again--I appreciate any and all tips. Big Bob

Running that much expo is half your problem. To fly the higher classes you have to be able to learn how to fly with fast ailerons. If your expo is over 40% on pattern rates (30 degrees ail) it will fly like crap. Also in order to get the snap to score you have to break the line with pitch movement. Not something that is easy to do. It is ok for the aircraft to move over in the direction of the snap. Your not going to be able to copy someones setup exactly and get it to work. It will be close but every plane and pilot is slightly diffrent. So fine tuning is a great idea.

[bob knudsen]

Hi Reza,

I have been using the Futaba 9Zap radios for about 15 years now. I went out and flew some more today. I jacked my ailerons up as high as I could get them. If they have to go higher I will have to redo the linkage, which I can do if I have to. I don't want to have to flip a switch to do the snaps, because I have 7 snaps to do, so I would have to flip the switch 14 times and I can't see how that can be good. I understand what you guys are saying about too much expo. I hate it when you are moving the aileron stick and you get into that portion where the curve is ramping up hard and it is difficult to be consistent. I am not new at this--I have been flying for over 30 years, including 6 years in FAI pattern. I flew against QQ several times (I was never a contender). The only thing that is new is all the zeros that I have gotten on my snap rolls in the last 2 contests I have attended. I am assuming Big Bird is right, and I am just going to have to learn to contend with the high rates. One more question Reza--where should the cg be on the 120" Yak?? Thanks for all your help.

Big Bob