Who's fault for crash?

[hillmanr2]

I have almost crashed my plane because I had to jump out of the way. If I had crashed I would have expected to be reimbursed. If I was the pilot of the plane that almost hit someone and caused them to crash, I would pay and make sure they were alright before I did anything else.

I don't understand the general trend these days to try and escape taking responsibility for ones own actions. The kid having to jump out the way to avoid injury, directly caused him to crash his helicopter. What makes this worse IMHO is that the pilot of the plane is "experienced ". An experienced flyer should not have lost control of his airplane on final approach with someone else on the flight line. If he was having control issues he should have called it and if necessary ditched the plane in a safe area.

Not only should the pilot have apologized to the kid he should have immediately apologized for putting everyone at the event in danger due to negligent actions.
Accidents don't happen, they are created

[rede2fly]

i think this is a very good thread. to here all the different opions. so after reading all the thoughts or imputs, this gives us all something to think about the next time we are at the field and making a dessision about wether or not to fly while someone else is flying. i dont think it should have come to this, but when a 4 to 5 thousand dollar whatever it is will be in the air, it will be time to open your wallet and see whats in there so you can see if your wallet will let you fly or not. someone needs to open a insurance co just for this reason.... i could see it now

[BubbaGump]

I'm just happy that no one was hurt.

Forrest

[bosshoss]

Bottom line is, most of us are blessed to fly with stand-up people. Meaning...taking responsibility for the actions.

However, at a public field, all kinds show up, and there is no rule of law, except reactionary law by the local cops. He said-she said. There are rules of course, but not everyone follows because there are very few ramifications if they don't. Taking responsibility suffers as a result...imo.

Private airparks are different story. Take responibility or leave and never come back.

A bad reputation is something most people will try to avoid, unless there is another place for them to go. Lord knows, at our public field, although "governed " by the local club ..is a veritable Peyton's Place. A-holes come and go,.......

AA had a fortunate outcome of his bad day. Hopefully , when both parties sit down and become friends, a solution will be found.

My best flying buddy is someone who mid-aired me the first time we met.

Here's to hoping that happens.

[Eury]

I feel that the guy who was flying the plane should reimburse the Raptor pilot. If he was in control, the incident wouldn't have happened, but he was not, so the Raptor was crashed. Personal responsibility is what makes someone a good person, if you don't own up to your own actions, how can you call yourself a man?

A few posts up the question was posed about flying at the same time as a $5k airplane. I thnk about that when I go flying, and if there is someone else in the air that is flying, I adjust my own patternes accordingly. I, like most everyone here on FG, fly a plane that is large enough that I can see it far away, so when there is someone else up, I fly high and far, or coordinate my flight with whoever else is up so I stay left of center, while they stay right etc. It's not a matter of cost, a 40 size trainer gets the same level of respect, and if I caused a midair or a crash of a 40% or a 40 size trainer, I would own up to it, and replace the equipment.

[wizard]

Guys, it is bad enough to replace our aircraft when they go in due to equipment failure or a dumb thumb. We all know that. To lose an aircraft due to someone else's actions just adds insult to injury. If you cause damage or loss of someones property, make it right. Even if you have to arrange to make payments to the person.

I have had to rebuild, and replace planes and equipment. I have had some of my planes go in when I had asked someone else to fly them. When that happened it was due to radio problems and I did not even think that the other person was responsible. I have also had a plane shot down and the only other person around with a radio on the same channel denied it. On that occasion the only other radio on the channel was not in the impound at the event.

Bottom line. if you screw up make it right.

[bosshoss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QSSQKdjC70

[BubbaGump]

I was the pilot of the Raptor.

Forrest

[n2zen]

Ok, let me introduce myself... I am Jay Yahn, the Safety Officer of the field in this topic. I was there... and spoke to many individuals involved. Now, here is the tough part, I know and like both parties involved... Mike and Forrest have been nothing but cordial, helpful and friendly... the airplane pilot is a member of the club and is definately the same.

This may sound biased, but please remember I am simply stating the facts.
- The airplane was in the air before Forrest went up with the Heli, this made the aircraft pilot nervous; Forrest and Mike are the only ones to have flown heli's at our field and they are both very proficient at it (I don't think I need to point that out, but will)
- Forrest was standing IN FRONT of the flight line (on the runway). At the 2 prior pilots meetings, this has been discussed at lengths. No one was to be in front of the line without calling "On the Field" unless they were putting on a demonstration for the spectators and had the field to themselves.
- The airplane pilot nosed his plane to the ground to avoid hitting anyone, crashing his own plane. He had a nice controlled approach, looked perfect... It was close to the flight, real close. He was flying a Cub. It is SPECULATED that he realized he was approaching too close to the flight line and realized that Forrest was across the fight line, tried to pull out and stalled. The plane then turned and head towards Forrest and nosed into the ground... 5-8 foot away from Forrest. This is still close enough I would be still cleaning the stain from my pants... but still, it was an accident.
- The flight line consists of 2' steel fence posts 10' apart; this provides some protection for pilots behind the flight line.
- There were several witnesses that claim they heard the airplane pilot call "Landing", two of which were close to Forrest's location. I can not confirm this, but have flown with the fellow and he could almost be accused of over-calling his actions.
- Todd should have been more familiar with the environment and probably aborted the landing attempt before he got to stall speeds.
- Todd did not appologize right off the bat, he says he was shaken, trying to calm down and overwhelmed at the number of guys he was about to approach to get his plane. Mike approached Todd, spoke with him for a few minutes then Todd went to appologize to Forrest. Todd stated that Forrest wouldn't acknowledge his presense.

It is very unfortunate. I feel bad for Forrest and Mike; heli's sure as heck ain't cheap. I feel bad for Todd for the crash of his plane, although it is likely in better repair than the heli. I guess I have taken the stance of it was definately an accident. Things could have been avoided, sure. If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his a$$ on the ground. As far as the flight line issue, Forrest wasn't the only one across it; I repeatedly asked several people to step behind the flight line.

Again, I hate to get wrapped up in this because aside from that, we had a great event with a lot of great people who I would like to see there again. Mike, Forrest and Todd are all great people. We all take chances in this hobby, we all realize that an accident can happen. I just wanted to make a few statements of things that I felt was left out of the thread... not to bash anyone, not to switch the blame, just state some left out facts.

This has, however, made us more away of some things we can do to make the field a safer place. Pit expansions were planned prior to this event. We are looking into a flight line barrier and a dedicated heli area. We are also looking into what else we can do to make it better for everyone.

Comments are welcome.

Jay Yahn
AMA #: 842643
Safety Officer / Editor / Webmaster
Fayette Model Aviators, AMA Charter 4652
www.fayettemodelaviators.com

[Danny Gray]

#1 I'm glad Forrest was not hit. #2 I would have dumped my plane before I got that close.....

[Bunky F. Knuckle]

Jay, I can vouch for you on those occasions as well. I too try to remind people to stand back off the "actual flight line."

Thank you for clearing ALOT of this up!!!

PS- hows that video?? I know that it only has been 3 days now....... But c'mon!!!! HAHA!!!!

Chris~

[jaguar bone]

Four witnesses said if Forrest had not jumped out of the way he would have been hit by the other guy's plane.
Our club has designated pilot station areas with a webbing material. The only reason to not be behind one is for craft recovery.

This pilot had trouble controlling his plane and nearly hit my son who literally had to jump out of the way as he saw the plane coming at him from the corner of his eye. There were several witnesses that claim they heard the airplane pilot call "Landing
Interesting how learning all the facts of this incident can temper an adjustment or change in conclusions.