Who's fault for crash?

[rede2fly]

	Quote: Originally Posted by n2zen
	Ok, let me introduce myself... I am Jay Yahn, the Safety Officer of the field in this topic. I was there... and spoke to many individuals involved. Now, here is the tough part, I know and like both parties involved... Mike and Forrest have been nothing but cordial, helpful and friendly... the airplane pilot is a member of the club and is definately the same. This may sound biased, but please remember I am simply stating the facts. - The airplane was in the air before Forrest went up with the Heli, this made the aircraft pilot nervous; Forrest and Mike are the only ones to have flown heli's at our field and they are both very proficient at it (I don't think I need to point that out, but will) - Forrest was standing IN FRONT of the flight line (on the runway). At the 2 prior pilots meetings, this has been discussed at lengths. No one was to be in front of the line without calling "On the Field" unless they were putting on a demonstration for the spectators and had the field to themselves. - The airplane pilot nosed his plane to the ground to avoid hitting anyone, crashing his own plane. He had a nice controlled approach, looked perfect... It was close to the flight, real close. He was flying a Cub. It is SPECULATED that he realized he was approaching too close to the flight line and realized that Forrest was across the fight line, tried to pull out and stalled. The plane then turned and head towards Forrest and nosed into the ground... 5-8 foot away from Forrest. This is still close enough I would be still cleaning the stain from my pants... but still, it was an accident. - The flight line consists of 2' steel fence posts 10' apart; this provides some protection for pilots behind the flight line. - There were several witnesses that claim they heard the airplane pilot call "Landing", two of which were close to Forrest's location. I can not confirm this, but have flown with the fellow and he could almost be accused of over-calling his actions. - Todd should have been more familiar with the environment and probably aborted the landing attempt before he got to stall speeds. - Todd did not appologize right off the bat, he says he was shaken, trying to calm down and overwhelmed at the number of guys he was about to approach to get his plane. Mike approached Todd, spoke with him for a few minutes then Todd went to appologize to Forrest. Todd stated that Forrest wouldn't acknowledge his presense. It is very unfortunate. I feel bad for Forrest and Mike; heli's sure as heck ain't cheap. I feel bad for Todd for the crash of his plane, although it is likely in better repair than the heli. I guess I have taken the stance of it was definately an accident. Things could have been avoided, sure. If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his a$$ on the ground. As far as the flight line issue, Forrest wasn't the only one across it; I repeatedly asked several people to step behind the flight line. Again, I hate to get wrapped up in this because aside from that, we had a great event with a lot of great people who I would like to see there again. Mike, Forrest and Todd are all great people. We all take chances in this hobby, we all realize that an accident can happen. I just wanted to make a few statements of things that I felt was left out of the thread... not to bash anyone, not to switch the blame, just state some left out facts. This has, however, made us more away of some things we can do to make the field a safer place. Pit expansions were planned prior to this event. We are looking into a flight line barrier and a dedicated heli area. We are also looking into what else we can do to make it better for everyone. Comments are welcome. Jay Yahn AMA #: 842643 Safety Officer / Editor / Webmaster Fayette Model Aviators, AMA Charter 4652 www.fayettemodelaviators.com

i guess this left out statments from the safty guy tells more than what was said. stay behind the pilot station. stay away from the runway and these things wont happen. if you are out of the pilot station flying from the runway what do you expect????????????????????????. but again i wasnt there

[LookNatU2]

	Quote: Originally Posted by bosshoss
	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QSSQKdjC70

I will be more aware of my flying and other flyers after reading this thread, for sure..
Not much was said about this link of this kid getting hit.. but it's scary...

[Salmon]

One last comment and I'll move on. Having a designated helicopter area has nothing to do with this situation. Forrest or any other pilot could have been flying a fixed wing just as easy as a helicopter and the same thing would have happened. What if it was Seth or his dad flying the IMAC plane and this happened? Or Chris and his 35%? I guarantee you Todd would have been held responsible. But not in this case. I do not agree with your facts above as Todd's approach was obviously not perfect or in control. If it was why did he dump his plane to avoid hitting the pits? Forrest was not on the runway or in front of the flightline as you imply. He was standing in front of the pits, the same place every other pilot in your club was standing all day long. This can be verified by Dale, Rusty, Seth, Tom, Steve, or myself? None of these folks heard any pilot call for landing. These are the folks who were down with us in our pits and saw the whole thing.

I think the points have been made in this thread and I appreciate everyone's inputs.

[50%plane]

Mike,
It's stupid to cry bias because Forrest was flying a heli. Get over it. We're all glad that nobody was hurt. Why don't you and Forrest sit down and have a nice chat with Todd. When it's all done and said with, you can at least be done with it.(hopefully both party's will be happy)
This is a hobby. Go have fun. Forgive and forget.


50%

[Craven]

CLOSE THIS THREAD!! PLEASE!!!!!!

[twostroke]

Just wanted to add my two cents as I was at the field also but only turned to see the heli hit the ground.

First, I don't personally like pilots stations as it is nice to move around a little while I am flying - again, just my thoughts and not what is neccessarily correct.

Second, I also like to stand on the field, very close (like a foot or two) away from the flightline - pit boundary. Again, not neccessarily correct - jmo.

Third, all the facts have been stated and most are, from what I witnesseed, exactly what happened - so I am not going to restate the above.

Finally, I do try (not always as I am at fault as well) to stand close to the other pilots who are flying so I am sure that they can hear me or I can hear them if there is an issue. I think maybe this is the main thing that went wrong - two people standing on opposite ends of the field, flying at the same time. If all pilots in the air stand in close approxsimity (SRY CANT SPELL), then most issues like this may be avoided. (Also, I figure, if I stand close to the other pilots, they are most likely going to avoid hitting themselves so I would also have a greater chance not getting hit).

In that being said, I am pointing the finger at myself as well, and can take alot from this thread and use it to my benefit the next time I fly.

I think, even larger than pointing who is at fault, that we may have just opened the eyes of many of us to avoid this issue ever again.

I have seen some of the top pilots in the world have an accident - there was only one Man on this earth that was perfect!

I can go on and on at who I feel was at fault but in addition, I feel we all need to learn a lesson, make changes where we need to and be friends through all of this! I know I will!

[Johnny MoJo]

Mike and Forrest,

Sorry to hear about your bad luck.. A word of advice...STAY AWAY from the casino's! Having to endure
1. a marching band competition,
2. almost getting hit by a CUB
3. Crashing your heli
4. Missing NashBro

Man, it sorta sucks to be you guys right now. Glad nobody was hurt. Hey forrest, you should be hovering planes, not helicopters!

J.

[cbk07]

"One last comment and I'll move on. Having a designated helicopter area has nothing to do with this situation. Forrest or any other pilot could have been flying a fixed wing just as easy as a helicopter and the same thing would have happened. What if it was Seth or his dad flying the IMAC plane and this happened? Or Chris and his 35%? I guarantee you Todd would have been held responsible."

Are you saying that if your son was flying anything other than a helicopter that the plane pilot would have been held responsible? That makes no sense to me. Please explain. This sounds ridiculous to me

[madmax]

Guys, I take it we're all in agreement that this was an accident, I think we've all seen similar things happen while at the field. The only I would ask is please keep this respectful. We have people being mentioned here by name, we have good chunk of folks here know them personally, and true to FG form, we do not want to be keeping them up and night wondering what words on an internet forum are going to pop up next. Catch my drift? Thanks guys.

[Bunky F. Knuckle]

Maxon, lets put the lock on this one. I think that it is getting out of hand here. I've been offline for a few days, and seen that this is getting out of proportion. Guys, try to keep the messages going, PRIVATE.

Would I fly with someone else in the air?? SURE WOULD!! I flew with you, Mike. We didn't have any problems. Would I fly with the guy who has a Cub in the air?? Maybe. I analyze how the pilot is handling their equipment, and then decide if I want to fly right then. I also try to keep my 3D to a minimum as well. I'm not certain as to how it will have any adverse affects on their flying style, and I certianly do not want to cramp them. But if I were up, and there was another person take off, and have difficulty in controlling their arcraft, I will land. But if someone is profecient with their flying skills, I will stay airborn, and minimize my 3D.

My thoughts...........

Bunk-Meister~

[Craven]

Max,
Great new avatar dude!!
But, as I've said several times in this thread, it needs to be CLOOSED!!!
THANKS BIOTCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jerry out..........................

[rede2fly]

yea i to think this thread needs to go away. not just locked