H9's Sundowner

[CRG]

Yes it might be considered a stepping stone, but I don't think it's a mistake. Many sports have 'entry level' type classes. If all we wanted was entry fees we could introduce all manner of classes that would be affordable and desirable to the average modeler.

Fair, fun, no guesswork- again you need to look at the F1GT class. Spec motors, fuel, props.

People will get 'forced' out of the class because this isn't the Sundowner Racing League. We're not making people spend a bunch of money on anything they don't want to. And those have Sundowners already who may not have thought about racing them now have something they can try with their model. And you know what they'll gain from it? The very familiarity and knowledge that will help them move to another class if they want to.

The USRA is about giant scale racing. The Sundowner may be IMAA legal but it's hardly giant. The fact that is scale makes it more attractive than the Dominator.

Craig.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Jkoch713
	I am not sure what USRA is intent on or what it's goals are.. being you are on the board, you know more than I do.... The mistake I see is that USRA looks at the SD class and sees it as a steping stone. That is great, but it has the potential to be a steady garentee of entrance fee's.. Why should one be forced to move out of the class? Is the fear that it will become too dominated by one person? That no one else will try because it is too competetive? It is this general attitude that makes one feel that the Sundowner class is really a go out and spend over 1000$ on a race plane.... race it and then throw it away... and be forced to spend thousands to enter a class that they have NO fimiliarity, or any knowledge about.. Why not have different classes if it came to this? A+expert B=advanced c=Beginer Or split them up by engine choices.... I think that if you look at the different rc events.... Like spec classes, they are some of the most popular entered because the guesswork is taken out of the equation and they know that it will be fair and fun.... Yes, guys may say that" I want to move up to something else ect" It may be due to the pressure from the rules more than anything else.... If you go to a 1/10 th truck stock motor electric race on a national level it is every bit prestigious of a win when capared to all but the 1/8th on road nationals... I have not been to a race so I just as well am wasting my breath...

[Leseirf]

As a newbie with barely a season under my belt, I can't imagine anyone wanting to stay in the Sundowner class after seeing the big planes race. I'll bet after one or two races you'll be ready to beg, borrow or steal whatever is necessary to get yourself into at least an F1-GT airplane. I know I was!

And the Sundowner I have isn't wasted money. We can't fly the larger planes at our local club field so I'll use it to sharpen my skills without having to drive for an hour.

Mike

[Jkoch713]

	Quote: Originally Posted by CRG
	Fair, fun, no guesswork- again you need to look at the F1GT class. Spec motors, fuel, props. The USRA is about giant scale racing. The Sundowner may be IMAA legal but it's hardly giant. Craig.

I guess that pretty myuch sums it up then....

How much is involed to get into the f1GT class?

I don't have time to scratch build one of those.....
3-4 thousand to have someone build it for me??? (I am talking about a class winner) For 3-races a year??? These are purpose built planes..... Not sport planes.....
I am not running to go get it? Thas is a big investment for such a short time of use....

I think that I have to understand the whole racing moto! "If you can't afford to drive you car off a cliff and not flinch about it, than you shouldn't be racing it"

I would rather build a giant Seafury, with retracts that I could still fly when I am not racing.....I believe that would be in the Unlimited class?

I appreciate all the info that you have shared about the class.....
THis really gives me the information that I was looking for....

Justin

[rcign]

Almost all the F1GT planes fly like big sport planes, no bad habits...We took our Kelly F1GT to a sport field in Chino Valley and flew it in wind that had the other sport flyers sitting and watching...Loops, rolls, knife edge, hammerheads, etc...It was a big hit with the locals....It took 3rd in Silver in it's first race in about 15 years. (It's the second Kelly ever built, still going strong) ..It would have been first but for a start cut...It was the pilot's first organized pylon race with a new caller....
You just need to watch the landing speed, they glide and glide and glide.......

[Jkoch713]

Nice to hear.....

That landing thing,,,, that isn't optional is it?

How much do you have in on the kelly?

Justin

[rcign]

Used Kelly, $300...Used GT80, $500.......

[Sparky69]

Justin,
Oh and by the way Mikes comments are from the, "USRA 2007 Rookie of the Year". He is ready to move on and as much as I hate top admit it, even I get some needed practice flying the Sundowner doing all the testing of the various props and engines at my local club field. Flying with a purpose is always prefered to boreing holes in the sky, I just got done burning a 6-7000 mile hole in the sky burning about 34,000 gallons of jet fuel. Off to my own bed
Sparky

[CRG]

Justin,

I just sold my used GR7 for $1500. Was turnkey less motor, so you could have had a Gold airplane for $2K.

A new GR7 out of the molds is $2500. Other models are cheaper, but more building. There are a few foam and glass kits around the $1000-1200 mark I believe.

Craig.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Jkoch713
	Nice to hear..... That landing thing,,,, that isn't optional is it? How much do you have in on the kelly? Justin

[Jkoch713]

I saw a all composite Sundowner in the f1gt for sale for 4000$ or B/O...(I beleieve this was the F1 GT clas..\

Thanks for info....

Jusitin

[CRG]

That airplane had a foam wing, molded fuselage and tail. It's a fair chunk of money but still tough to recover the time and effort that goes into building them.

Until one of the big players make a race legal ARF there's no 'cheap' way into F1 or Unlimited. Spend your money on a molded airframe, or spend your time building one from scratch. I built my Cassutt (there's a build thread on FG) for a few hundred bucks but it took a year of pretty solid building.

Craig.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Jkoch713
	I saw a all composite Sundowner in the f1gt for sale for 4000$ or B/O...(I beleieve this was the F1 GT clas.. Thanks for info.... Jusitin

[Jkoch713]

Craig,
I hate to say it, but these numbers prove my point that USRG has made a mistake by forcing one to move up!... Meaning that if one wants to keep racing, you have to go and spend a great deal of money to be competative....

Other events have steping stones ( that isn't a mistake) but is is a mistake to FORCE one, to have to go and buy a new airframe to continue racing....

Example that I know of is in Motocross, you start in the C-class and move to B-class if, you have enough points to move up to B-class then you move up....
But, You do not have to change classes.... Meaning one wouldn't have to go and buy a 250cc bike instead of running a 125cc..... They just move up in competetiveness......

I guess that the goal of USRG is not to have a bunch of people racing, it seems they are more of the ELITE attitude... Meaning they are happy just keeping thins small.... and few... (this isn't a bad thing) I just thought witht he addition of the Sundowner class it was a change o venue for them? prehaps not.... Or perhaps I am way off on this....

I am off subject ...... Sorry....
Hows those sundowners going?

Justin

[rcplane]

jkoch713.

I think you need to go to a race to see how it is. The USRA (in my opinion) want more guys and that is why they are putting all the effort into the Sundowner in the first place. They already have the Dominator for a starter class so if they were just into doing it by themselves, why bother at all with the Sundowner?
What happened (and again this is just my opinion) is that the Evolution motor did not perform like they wanted or maybe even were told it would. Also lots of guys across the country have other good motors that have been around for years they already own that would work good, so with more effort they decided to allow a variety of engine choices, Saito 180, Moki 210 etc... To me this shows even more that they want new members and more racers.
You must go to a race and spend a couple days talking with these guys. Their generosity and friendship, the desire they have to race......... Then you will know there is nothing ELITE about them.
....except the cool facter they get every time the watch an Unlimited race!

Mike