Holy Cow !

[JohnVH]

subscribing for the show...

[Thomas_W]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	That's not a great story, that's sh-tty piloting.

Ok.. first off, you weren't their for any of the flight. And yes, we (2 pilot crew, me as FO) should have made an announcement sooner about the issue (which ended up being a mx issue caused b/c of the fuel transfer system being inop and the test procedure not testing all of the components in the system). yall are acting like you've never done anything stupid or could have done something better. Dont give me that BS, b/c their is always something in aviation as pilots that you could of done better. And until you find yourself in a situation such as this, you dont know how your going to react. The way our fuel transfer system works, is it only tells you when its NOT transferring the last 28 gallons of fuel from the inboard wing tank to the main nacalle tank. Well, when the test procedure only tests the fuel pump and pressure switch all you know is that the pump and pressure switch as working. It doesn't test the transfer system fuel probe which tells the transfer pump when to turn on and off. So to add more fuel to the fire for you guys i'll go more into detail on the flight...

As we reached about the Jax area of florida our "no fuel transfer" light Illuminated on the right side. We took this as we had a slight fuel imbalance (as the gauges were showing more fuel on the left side as well, more on this later). After checking the gauges, our times, the fuel flows (left engine was burning approx. 50lbs/hour less than the right) we decided to activate the fuel crossfeed function until the "no fuel transfer" light illuminated on the left side telling us that our fuel imbalance was now corrected (remember during the pre-flight the transfer system checked good). Well after 20 minutes (now i believe we were just south of cocoa beach area) we started to get "moved" around by atc. During all of this, they tried 3 times to divert us over 100miles out of the way b/c of "weather" at our altitude, but yet they wouldn't let us climb nor descend (yet). anyways, approx. 30-40 minutes of getting delayed by atc and them attempting to re-route us we both had forgotten we were still on cross-feed and about that time i mentioned that it had been "a long time" since we initiated manual cross-feed and the light had still not illuminated and i thought we should go back to normal, as something didn't seem right. About 10-20 minutes after that i believe is when the left engine flamed out.
The following day, we began troubleshooting (we are both A&P's as well) the issue of why we still had the 28gallons of use-able fuel left in the left inboard wing tank (wing tanks are aux's and nacalle's are our mains), since the transfer system tested fine before the flight and AFTER the flight. Long story short, after about 5 hours, we came to the conclusion that the fuel transfer system probe was defective and was not telling the fuel transfer pump to come on when the nacalle tanks reached 10gallons low. Once we installed the new probe, the transfer pump began pumping our 28 gallons into the nacalle tanks like it should.
So yea, there are things we could and should of done different, but the long day (it was going on 14+ hours for both of us) along with the atc delays, weather, etc. all played a factor in us getting side tracked. Granted, i can probly gaurantee none of yall would do the jobs we do for what little we get payed for.

and yea I "do" get it. but it is still IMO that miami center doesn't give a **** about you unless your a jet.

[Flyfalcons]

So you screwed up. Man up and admit it, don't put your mistakes on ATC. Your fuel gauges worked didn't they? Less than 30 minutes of fuel remaining on either engine, that's emergency time.

Yes I've paid my dues in aviation just like you are now.

[paulvohland]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	So you screwed up. Man up and admit it, don't put your mistakes on ATC. Your fuel gauges worked didn't they? Less than 30 minutes of fuel remaining on either engine, that's emergency time. Yes I've paid my dues in aviation just like you are now.

Luckily i only paid my aviation dues for 2 months..... got tired of seeing INOP Placards all over the panel... LOL

Paul

[Thomas_W]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	So you screwed up. Man up and admit it, don't put your mistakes on ATC. Your fuel gauges worked didn't they? Less than 30 minutes of fuel remaining on either engine, that's emergency time. Yes I've paid my dues in aviation just like you are now.

Uhm.. according to the regs, the fuel gauges are only required to be accurate at tanks empty (if my memory serves me right). And our owner accepts it to leave it that way, so 90% of the time, our gauges are over 1/2 a tank off. And seeing how this is the first time either me or the other crew member had flown this particular plane, we weren't aware. But yes, "we" screwed up, but the ATC delays were a contributing factor in the screw up. Who said we had less than 30 minutes of fuel remaining on either engine? We still had 60 gallons of fuel in the right nacalle tank, granted we didn't know that at the time of the incident.

[Flyfalcons]

Well you ended up having zero minutes of fuel on the left engine, correct?

[Thomas_W]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	Well you ended up having zero minutes of fuel on the left engine, correct?

yes true... sorry i miss read your other post.. forgot the "either" haha.. i do enjoy my job. its not everyday you get to fly a king-air 90 at 200agl following the earth at 160kt groundspeed and required to do 45-60* bank turns w/ 180* of heading change

[Flyfalcons]

You said you're in Virginia? I can't find your certificate info on landings.com

[Thomas_W]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	You said you're in Virginia? I can't find your certificate info on landings.com

were not 135. were 91

[Flyfalcons]

No I meant your pilot certificate.

[Thomas_W]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	No I meant your pilot certificate.

......

[pjfaller]

WOW!!!!
Part 91 or part 135 running out of fuel???????
just a little qualifier for my comment not patting my back....15K hours multiple heavy jet type ratings.

I dont care how screwed up the fuel transfer system is on a King Air 90, 200, or 300 for that matter. As an SIC or a PIC its is your responsibilty at ALL times to know the usable amount of fuel on that airplane at ALL times. Running out of gas in an airplane is pure STUPDITY....Even more stupidity is the fact that you are online #1 telling about it and #2 trying to justify complete and total incompetence. Have I ever screwed around in an airplane. YES!!! two mistakes high and within the FAR's.
Try sitting across the table in a pilot job interview and explain it the way you are doing it on here. Gee...would you get the job? My thoughts would be NO!

I have a HUGE problem with this post! I wonder why on a daily basis my career and profressionalism as an airline pilot is being questioned by the flying public. Its comments and stupidity like yours that make ME defend my professionalism. You should be 609'ed and your license taken away. WHY not because you screwed up, although I cant justify a fuel starvation problem, but you should be 609'ed because you cant get it through your thick headed skull that what you did not only jeopordized your own life, but your passengers and those on the ground as well.

PURE STUPIDITY PAL!!!!! you can say what you want in return, but wake up and realize what you did is completely and totally your fault as well as the PIC's and there is nothing you can do or say to justify it!