Holy Cow !

[pjfaller]

Oh and by the way....You say it started over Jacksonville.
what are these?
Jacksonville
St. Augustine
Ormond Beach
Daytona Beach
New Smyrna Beach
Titusville
Merrit Island
Orlando
Sanford
Partick AFB
Vero Beach
Stewart.......

Answer......Suitable airports to land at!!!!!!!!

Gee when you got in the airplane and had three hours of gas onboard, NOT gallons, I dont give a rap what the gauges say. Ive got 3 hours and accroding to the FAA VFR at 2:30 minutes HMMMMMM I need to land. I dont wait unitl 3 hours and then say its a transfer pump problem to blame my stupidity on running an engine dry!!!!!

[Thomas_W]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pjfaller
	WOW!!!! Part 91 or part 135 running out of fuel??????? just a little qualifier for my comment not patting my back....15K hours multiple heavy jet type ratings. I dont care how screwed up the fuel transfer system is on a King Air 90, 200, or 300 for that matter. As an SIC or a PIC its is your responsibilty at ALL times to know the usable amount of fuel on that airplane at ALL times. Running out of gas in an airplane is pure STUPDITY....Even more stupidity is the fact that you are online #1 telling about it and #2 trying to justify complete and total incompetence. Have I ever screwed around in an airplane. YES!!! two mistakes high and within the FAR's. Try sitting across the table in a pilot job interview and explain it the way you are doing it on here. Gee...would you get the job? My thoughts would be NO! I have a HUGE problem with this post! I wonder why on a daily basis my career and profressionalism as an airline pilot is being questioned by the flying public. Its comments and stupidity like yours that make ME defend my professionalism. You should be 609'ed and your license taken away. WHY not because you screwed up, although I cant justify a fuel starvation problem, but you should be 609'ed because you cant get it through your thick headed skull that what you did not only jeopordized your own life, but your passengers and those on the ground as well. PURE STUPIDITY PAL!!!!! you can say what you want in return, but wake up and realize what you did is completely and totally your fault as well as the PIC's and there is nothing you can do or say to justify it!

Dude.. i take my job very seriously. Yes what happened should not have happened, but it did, **** happens, you learn from it and carry on (if all comes out well at the end).. At the time neither of us had any indication that we were going to have a flame-out, both fuel nacalle fuel gauges were reading well above empty, and our times indicated to us we had plenty of fuel on board (which we did, 60 gallons roughly, just unfortunately it was all on one side). We "could" of done a cross-feed and had no other problems but we decided it was best to continue on one engine.. And Again, i wasn't PIC, yes i was acting as FO, but FAR's still say its PIC decision. We operate under restricted category, so we dont carry passengers. I'm not trying to justify it was a stupid decision, just that it was a learning experience from a LACK of training. I hadn't even attended a ground school for the king-air 90 and only had a rudementary knowledge of the fuel system, so i was going by mostly what my times were telling me and from the experience for the PIC.. you think I dont realize what could of happened had the situation turned worse. I've lost 3 friends in aviation b/c of stupid decisions, I realize what "could" of happened. Luckily i had someone looking out for myself as well as others and it did not happen. It was a good learning experience (although it should of been in the sim instead of in the plane) and i learned from it.

[Thomas_W]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pjfaller
	Oh and by the way....You say it started over Jacksonville. what are these? Jacksonville St. Augustine Ormond Beach Daytona Beach New Smyrna Beach Titusville Merrit Island Orlando Sanford Partick AFB Vero Beach Stewart....... Answer......Suitable airports to land at!!!!!!!! Gee when you got in the airplane and had three hours of gas onboard, NOT gallons, I dont give a rap what the gauges say. Ive got 3 hours and accroding to the FAA VFR at 2:30 minutes HMMMMMM I need to land. I dont wait unitl 3 hours and then say its a transfer pump problem to blame my stupidity on running an engine dry!!!!!

Ok.. once again... yea it was stupid. We didn't "blame" it on the fuel transfer pump, I said the fuel transfer pump issue contributed/caused the issue. Me having an entire 100 hours of time in the same type at the time w/ 1 hour of training and no ground school training played a large part of it as well. Little experience in my part as an FO, WTF was i supposed to do. rudementary knowledge on the fuel system at the time so i went with what the captain said would be best, until the light never came on.. then i spoke up. I just now finished a ground school course, which was pretty basic and pointless IMO, it was more on company policy than procedures and aircraft systems. Dont judge me from one incident i happened to be involved in. Had i been the PIC i would of diverted to an airport long before the flame-out as i knew something was up when the PIC decided to cross-feed (which at the time i vaguely remembered someone saying to never use x-feed in our planes) but I said nothing (which is the biggest problem) b/c he had greater experience in type than myself. Now i know if anything feels out of place to speak up. If people get mad tough ****, they'll get over it

Our endurance in our planes is 6 hours 25 minutes. That leaves you 5 hours and 55 minutes. We had PLENTY of fuel to get to FXE w/o issues even w/ the transfer system fubar'd, had it not been for the atc delay's. We never expected to have over an hour of atc delay's. but thats still no excuse.

[3DFreak576]

	Quote: Originally Posted by N726AC
	Got my pop-corn.

	Quote: Originally Posted by JohnVH
	subscribing for the show...

Hey pj, where in port orange are you?

[crazyextra]

And I thought Modelers were a fiesty bunch, Sheesh

[KIM]

thank god everyone came out ok never went past a 150 33hrs

[777drvr]

Hey Thomas ,

I take it back . I think you do get it . Your initial post without any background info did not present you in a good light . As we all know , accidents/incidents are never because of one individual problem but a chain of events . I was thinking that you had no clue as to your fuel state and that you were going to let ATC turn you into a glider . As has already been mentioned , you can't spit in Florida without hitting an airport suitable for a King Air . Remember , you fly the airplane . If you have an emergency , declare it . Not priority handling . Either it's a dangerous ( engine out , possible fuel starvation) or it's not . Kind of like being a little bit pregnant ! Make ATC work for you in a situation like that !

It sounds like you're young and new at the game . It can be tough at that stage . Hopefully your Captain learned from this as well . I have certainly made mistakes in my career that could have killed me if the circumstances were not as forgiving but I've been lucky to survive those years and be in a good company flying good airplanes . I still make mistakes and still learn . You've admitted many times what was wrong with this situation and I'm sure you've learned from it .

Stay safe and good luck with your career !

Marc

[reyn3545]

In the spirit of enlightenment....

WTF do you do for a living in a King Air that close to the ground, that fast, and with 180 degree turns? If I were you, my job would be testing out the vomit bags!

[Flyfalcons]

hey PJ you forgot Smellbourne. I know, after four years living there I have done my best to forget about the place too , but someone's gotta give da MLB some love on this thread.

[Thomas_W]

	Quote: Originally Posted by 777drvr
	Hey Thomas , I take it back . I think you do get it . Your initial post without any background info did not present you in a good light . As we all know , accidents/incidents are never because of one individual problem but a chain of events . I was thinking that you had no clue as to your fuel state and that you were going to let ATC turn you into a glider . As has already been mentioned , you can't spit in Florida without hitting an airport suitable for a King Air . Remember , you fly the airplane . If you have an emergency , declare it . Not priority handling . Either it's a dangerous ( engine out , possible fuel starvation) or it's not . Kind of like being a little bit pregnant ! Make ATC work for you in a situation like that ! It sounds like you're young and new at the game . It can be tough at that stage . Hopefully your Captain learned from this as well . I have certainly made mistakes in my career that could have killed me if the circumstances were not as forgiving but I've been lucky to survive those years and be in a good company flying good airplanes . I still make mistakes and still learn . You've admitted many times what was wrong with this situation and I'm sure you've learned from it . Stay safe and good luck with your career ! Marc

Marc,
i know exactly what you mean, i kind of left the first post very vague, so i had coming what to me what i got, i think some just jumped into judgement before knowing the entire scenario. I did all of my Flight training from private thru CFII in the central florida area, so everytime i go back its like "home". Everytime i go fly i learn something, which i believe its how it should be, we will never know anything, and if someone says they do, they are either ignorant or lying. haha I've been around aviation since i was born, and have been involved in it some form or another since the age of 12 (back in 1996) (when i first started working on my Pvt license). I've only been flying career wise since 06, so i've still got alot to learn. Just a lil FYI, 99% of our flight crews are under the age of 27. 99% of the FO's (me and 2 others excluded) have under 300 hours. Me and the other 2 are 1200+.. So our flying environment is pretty diverse and a PITA at times b/c of the lack of experience of some of the other crew members.

	Quote:
	In the spirit of enlightenment.... WTF do you do for a living in a King Air that close to the ground, that fast, and with 180 degree turns? If I were you, my job would be testing out the vomit bags!

We do geophysical survey work that low. We also do alot of "weird" contracts that aren' the norm for aviation. Awesome job, but the pay sucks as i make around the same as a regional FO w/ 10 times the duties as a "Pilot/Mechanic". But then again, i dont have to worry about the fluctuations that the reginonal guys do.

Anyways,
here's a shot from northern canada from back in November 07 at 500' descending down to 200'. Temp was -25c that day, and we are normally under pretty solid overcast layers of clouds, this was just a good day.

[JohnVH]

nice pics

[N726AC]

My part time FO office;




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