Spin Help Please

[excelpoint]

Are you using aileron in your spin(I never do). If you are this could be making it appear that the opposite wing is coming over the top. It really dosnt matter what a full size spin looks like or what a true spin looks like, the fact is the judges are judging to a set criteria as per the rules which state the wing and nose must drop at the same time, so thats what we as the pilot must try to achieve.

[exeter_acres]

	Quote: Originally Posted by excelpoint
	the fact is the judges are judging to a set criteria as per the rules which state the wing and nose must drop at the same time, so thats what we as the pilot must try to achieve.

B.....I....N.....G.....O......

That is the answer... period

[rcdart]

Another point here for judges and pilots to remember, the definition of a stall, is not an aircraft that is stationary in the sky, dependant on airframe and wingloading this gives a very different visual interpretation. For instance I have been in the situation where the wind was a different direction up high, hence a downwind entry, I got a zero due to the judge explaining to me the aircraft did not stall, that it was still travelling across the sky. Using a S1 Pitts, I think from memory the stall speed is up around 68kts, it definately does not stop in the sky prior to stall in a horizontal plain. Therefore, some see a plane that is not stationary, but falls into a spin, they then determine the entry as forced WRONG!
My point is, this maybe the interpretation that is resulting -possibly incorrectly- is what is causing your zero scores. As Excellpoint said, you need to fly to the criteria, but ask the judges where they are interpreting your nonconformance.

Mick

[excelpoint]

Mick makes a very valid point. An aircraft does not have to come to a complete stop in order for it to have stalled. As a Judge it is our job to learn what an actual stall break looks like in all wind situations as it is the pilots job to present the manouver in the correct criteria for the judges to judge.

[exeter_acres]

	Quote: Originally Posted by excelpoint
	. As a Judge it is our job to learn

Another Great point.....


and a great argument as to why ALL Imac pilots should attend a Flying and Judging seminar

[rcdart]

	Quote: Originally Posted by exeter_acres
	and a great argument as to why ALL Imac pilots should attend a Flying and Judging seminar

Perzackery, I have had pilots turn up to comps I run, and when asked to do a spell in the judges seat, say that "I cant, I dont know the criteria" my response is generally fairly short, but questions how they can possibly be flying in the comp. Now before I get flamed that we need to educate, not everyone (anyone) is an expert, we do educate, place experience with lesser experience etc. But, all, regardless of class, should regularly read judges guide and rules, as proved recently, some very experienced campainers, that all regarded should know whats what, were proved to be very wrong. We are all human, therefore we all benefit from a refresher from time to time .

[exeter_acres]

We recently had our first contest of the year... during the pilots meeting we had a brief discussion about a couple of the new rules...

I was amazed how many people there had not even read the rules.........
Zoinks!

[3Dreaming]

I've read the rules over several times, and I went to the juduging seminar. I know the judging criteria, and seeing a wing come over on spin entry is not mentioned. For a snapped entry to occur you have to have the nose pitch UP with the wing coming over, and you should see continued forward motion in stead of a vertical descent. Just the wing coming over is not enough to say it is a snapped entry. Shouldn't the wing coming over with the nose dropping meet the criteria for a spin entry? Tom

[FlyinTiger]

One of the TAS judges taught the Judging Seminar I went to last year in Salinas, CA. He explained the spin entry very well and it helped me visualize it in a simple way.

Holding your stick/practice plane, place your hand above it. Regardless of the angle of attack as the aircraft flies, the spin entry will occur with a combination of the wing dropping and the nose dropping, the key here is that no part of the aircraft will ever go "up."

In other words, with the practice plane under my hand, as it enters the spin, regardless of the aircrafts pitching or rolling, no part of the aircraft will hit my hand, it will always drop below the start point. Get out your practice plane and run through it, don't take my word for it.

Good luck!

[sweetpea]

deleted.....


Keep practicing until you can make the plane do it correctly (or at least correctly in the Judges eye, who should have some knowledge of what it is supposed to look like).