How to get in the TAS freestyle????

[Andy540T]

Mith,

I think you could be on to something here. I would not change IMAC one bit, however, there is no SIG in the AMA for freestyle and that might be something worth doing. I myself am not opposed to this idea, however I am more interested in the SA type of flying. I do think that it is much more exciting to watch freestyle than it is to watch sequence flying, but I get a lot of thrill out of the competition.

One thing to remember, IMAC is relativley new compared to pattern (sorry for the language, Biff), and now look at the participation. It just takes new thinking and actions to make it all happen.

[Judge]

In my mind "Freestyle" and 3D are not the same thing. 3D is the all out throw down slap down of flying to see just how far you can push it and NOT crash. It is great to watch and it has a growing following. Look at the XFC, the premier 3D event. 3D is ALL about the WOW!! factor and how much it impresses the crowd.

Freestyle is not the same animal. Freestyle is intended to allow the precision aerobatic pilot to demonstrate his command of the aircraft by grading him relative to published criteria on how well he controls the plane through all portions of the flight envelope and in all possible areas of the box.

Trying to meld the two into a single event I think shortchanges both of them.

You guys want dedicated 3D events?? Then DO them. Set up a series, get sponsors, and so on. I'll bet it would be a winner.

[3DBatixkid]

I think Mith is going a little too far here.

From what im seeing, the idea is to have a known freestyle, and a set music. I think that takes out pretty much all of the creativity of freestyle. This is borderline of the XFC. If we look at the XFC, its a HUGE contest that has multiple flights of freestyle. This is just simply too much to put into a weekend of flying. Judge is right about freestyle and 3D being very different.

Judge has a good idea for getting 3D contests going. The problem lies in the fact that not many people do 3D..YET. I think we need some sort of intro program before we hold full on 3D contests.

[Judge]

The other issue is that the 3D pilot seems not to be too interested in competition per se.

Interestingly enough, when I talked with the US heli pilots that went to this big heli 3D contest in Taiwan early in the summer, every one of the complained that there was no way to predict what the judges wanted to see, since there really were no criteria. It was all impression judging and they did not really like it too much.

[Shawn Berkheimer]

Ok let me expand on the idea I have a little more. the " Freestyle " would use the same judging criteria that IMAC has. It is published and the IMAC BOD has put some thought into it so i see no need to invent a new wheel here.

Zak is correct in the fact that the Unlimited guys would be required to fly the free. It would add a 10% bonus to their sequence scores. If you they fly a free, the get the points if not then no points. Their performance would still count for freestyle standings.

Typically at any given IMAC contest there are 4 to 5 unlimited pilots so I figure we could add another 10 freestyle contestants for a total of 15. If we move quickly the freestyle round can be completed in a little over an hour. I was thinking about giving the entry fees for freestyle back as prizes for the top 3. If there are 10 guys that paid 50.00 each that would be a 500.00 so first place would be 250, 150 for second and 100 for 3rd.

There would be one free round on saterday and one on Sunday. To speed things up on Sunday , my though was to get the Basic guys up early and have them fly 2 sequences and then they are finished for the contest. End result is that they lose one sequence as opposed to how we have been operating.

Another time saver would be to have Sportsman through Unlimited fly their unknown sequence once through, leave the box and then come back in the box for a sequence of knowns.

However way it is done I think that if we add the freestyle we need to make up 2 1/2 hours someplace along the way.

As far as location is concerned, I was thinking fresno.

Shawn

[shannah]

I don't mind the idea of freestyle being part of the unlimited contests, however it should mandate that the pilot has to use the same plane as he is flying in normal sequences and he can't change a fricking thing (no swapping of wings or stabs, no changes to throw mechanics, no CG changes, no prop changes). Only allow radio condition changes (like rates and volumes etc.). That way you aren't requiring guys to bring two planes or compromise their precision setup so it is capable of 3D.

I would still rather see it be a separate event with its own rules. I think it is a real time killer at IMAC events.

[Tailchaser]

Like I ask you guys before!!


Plus for Shawn and Zak who live in norcal,...why don't we northern guys have more contest to go too locally.meaning Northern Cal. Thanks

Chuck

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Shawn Berkheimer
	Another time saver would be to have Sportsman through Unlimited fly their unknown sequence once through, leave the box and then come back in the box for a sequence of knowns. Shawn

Sorry Dude, this is a WORLD Class Bad Idea and the new IMAC approved contest format warns against this.

First, having a guy come right back into the box after flying his Unknown would place a real burden on the pilot. Most want a bit of time to decompress. It takes some doing to change gears from one to the other.

Second, you are asking judges to go back and forth Unknown/Known/Unknown/Known. This is a burden on the judges.

Third, it is manifestly unfair to the pilot to have his afternoon Known judged by the same two judges as judged the Unknown.

Fourth, you will likely find out that it would not really save that much time. Most guys will want at least a minute or more to fly around before starting. And then you would have to go up and fly a single sequence round anyhow later on. No net time savings. The new IMAC Contest standard says that 6 Knowns are to be flown unless the RD waives it or weather prohibits it.

Don't break something that is working in the interest of trying something new.

Also, think about the prize money you laid out. Say you got 25 entries @ $50 each. That's $1,250. Now if you do get 10 Freestyle pilots you want to give back 40% of the entry fees to that one particular group? How do you think the rest of the field will feel about that? Not to mention what impact it would have on the contest finances itself. I know that for a SCAT event that would have broken the bank. For a normal club run event it would take away a big chunk of their profit. Not sure it makes anyone except the Freestyle pilots happy. Perhaps you might want to think that one over. Maybe get some special sponsorship for prizes or something else like that.

[Shawn Berkheimer]

Bill, I agree with what you are saying about going directly from unknown to known. perhaps i did not think that one through enough. We did have one contest done this way because of rain delays and it seemed to work well but your points are well received.

as for the cash prizes, if you look back at my figures you will see that the money that is utilized for the freestyle cash prizes would be the entries paid by the 10 pilots that entered the Freestyle only. the club would still get all the funds from the IMAC contestants PLUS revenue generated from food sales made from the increase in spectator support. That's why I would want a round of free on Saturday and Sunday so those interested in watching Freestyle would hopefully be there both days. I would also like to see a BBQ on Saturday night that would generate income for the hosting club. If things are done far enough ahead of time we may get enough manufactures support to raffle off a big item.

Obviously I have never ran an event before so I welcome all input. I think that the format would work really well after some details are worked out.

As far as Norcal contests we had 3 in the 2006 season. We lost Livermore because of encroaching houses. SCCMAS has airspace restrictions and Scaggs island has nobody that is interested in running the contest.

I have committed to help organize a contest at Scaggs island and Salinas. I will also be investigating contests in Fresno, Pittsburg and Ukiah over the next few months. SCCMAS may happen sometime in the future without airspace issues. I have been talking with the club and they seem to think that they can get waivers to fly over the ponds on certain weekends as long as it is not during nesting season. this is a long shot but still possible.

Shawn

[shannah]

Just to stir the pot a bit more and piss off more people, why not consider this: http://www.f3m.com/

last time I brought it up I was duly flamed, tarred and feathered. But, it is what you are describing.

[Rolling Thunder]

I think we should just fly the unknown twice and both count. I flew one contest with the unknown/known round together, it was a horrible idea.

As far as freestyle goes, keep it to 2-3 minutes instead of 4. It would be easier for people to come up with a routine. Some of us don't have 4 minutes worth of moves. I can't wait to see Dean fly freestyle.

[shannah]

I agree with the thumbs down on unknown/known round. It was at district finals a couple years ago. BAD BAD BAD. Did I mention that it was a BAD idea?