How to get in the TAS freestyle????

[aviti]

I think there should be more emphasis on freestyle and it should be independent of precision. There are a lot of guys out here that love 3D and just flying our own routines. Other sports have evolved in this manner. For example, it used to be motocross racers did some tricks on jumps and did the freestyle moves for fun and a few sidebar contests. Now moto freestyle is a fullblown event in the X-games etc. You don't have to be a motocross race guy to do the freestyle.

This way some guys would be freestyle only flyers, some IMAC only and some do both. We just need guys in different regions of the country to set up contests and get this going. It sounds like Shawn B is working on this but there needs to be more events to get freestyle to a more visible level. I'd volunteer to do what I can in the midwest...

[sweetpea]

I like most of the suggestions except requiring Unlimited to fly "Freestyle or 3D" (whatever you want to call it).

Remember not all pilots who compete like that type of flying, nor do they wish to put their plane through that kind of abuse. To lose the few limited pilots (as stated earlier 4 or 5 per contest) because they don't wish to fly free/3d would hurt the club holding the event.



Now for another point of view.........do we open this up to the basic class? What if we open it up to anyone, even those not competing?.......

I've seen some scary flying 3d style that some people think is "cool" but is borderline or flat out unsafe!!!. As a future CD who can be financially responsible , according to the AMA rules, I don't want unaccomplished pilots having "Free" rain during my contest.

At least with IMAC the manuevers are planned out so when a newbie is in trouble its obvious to those watching.

Maybe altitude restrictions per class similar to full scale? It would be judge discretion on that though.

But lets keep this going, I do like the freestyle and I do think it brings in the crowds....we just have to incorporate it better into an IMAC contest or its own contest.

[torquen]

I believe Freestyle should be done with the same plane as flown in IMAC. I have seen at many contests that the person goes out and gets his POS just so he can throw it into the ground and not have to worry about hurting his primary plane. Freestyle is not about crashing! Sure you can push the limits but there is no reason to beat the plane up hitting the tail and such. This is hard for some people to travel with two seperate planes. This also cuts down on the cost because you wont have to "make" two planes in order to compete. From traveling all around the country in many contest and freestyle, I have found that the best freestyle pilots are also very good at IMAC style flying and compete. Their wow factor is better because they can hold the plane low on the deck for a longer period of time and they are not scared because they know the exact imputs that need to be made.
You can watch a "stick thrower" and watch there inputs while flying and see that they sometimes have no idea what way to give the stick so they just end up in a torque roll or something from an inverted harrior. There is no driving the plane around and doing different stuff. IMAC teaches you the small inputs that need to be done in order to keep a plane on track and this all comes into play when your down on the deck.

Shawn, we have the new Lodi club up and running! Tons or runway, parking, and flyover. Lets get a contest going up here.
Garrett Morrison

[aviti]

I think it is a broad statement to say all 3D only guys are "stick throwers". There are several great 3D flyers in my area that are far from "losing control". IMAC is great and I agree it helps with all facets of flying 3D or otherwise, but you can still be a great 3D/Freestyle pilot without competing in IMAC. Let's see some contests where you can leave you IMAC resume at home and fly freestyle on its own merits.

[Judge]

Everybody needs to read Garrett's post at least 4 times. There is a lot of wisdom in there.

[sweetpea]

	Quote: Originally Posted by torquen
	I have found that the best freestyle pilots are also very good at IMAC style flying and compete. Their wow factor is better because they can hold the plane low on the deck for a longer period of time and they are not scared because they know the exact imputs that need to be made. Garrett Morrison

That right there says it all!

I for one am down right scared of a basic pilot who can't fly that good competing in Freestyle.

Do you guys really want me out there flying Freestyle? I think not. I'm smart enough to know my limits and freestyle infront of spectators for me is not smart with my current ablities.......But not everyone out there has enough common sense for that thinking.

[torquen]

Aviti, I am not saying all 3d guys are just stick throwers. I'm saying that you can learn a huge amount of control when you practice IMAC and this will teach you the correct directions to go every single time. Go out and ask your friends to fly all the way across the box from right to left at 200 feet inverted. Tell them you want them to give the correct rudder direction right away to put the nose away from you or toward you. You will see a bunch of them choke. This is a very basic input but will confuse a bunch of people because the plane is coming towards them and its upside down. Make sure you tell them to give the input before the plane reaches center point. I use to be one of the biggest stick throwers in the hobby. I could bang a plane around like no other. But to me I did not feel like I was in total control until I started flying IMAC.
Garrett

[Mithrandir]

I would hope most of us recognize sloppy flying when we see it....
Just because the plane is at 45 degrees alpha, does not excuse the requirement
that the flight PATH be horizontal, and the wings are level with the earth....
Precision and smoothness are IMHO still mandated.... there is just a whole new set
of stunts we can add to the list.....

FreeStyle is an event where the pilot is free to choose the order and tempo of his
own sequence. All facets of the aircrafts aerobatic capability should be demonstrated
without undue emphasis on any one facet. The sequence should be entertaining and
pleasing to observe with an element of timing and harmony with the music chosen
for any given segment.

It just so happens that the current trend is to include a lot of 3D maneuvers in a
freestyle sequence....

Some day I think that 3D stunts will just as a matter of routine be part of the IMAC
schedule of maneuvers.... maybe not in 2 years or 5 years, but eventually.....

(Why exclude stunts because they are "New"?)

But hey... I am just a local sport flyer who doesn't have the time or inclination to compete...
I just toss my little SX around as best I can and have fun with it!!!!


http://www.composite-arf-world.com

[Shawn Berkheimer]

	Quote: Originally Posted by sweetpea
	I like most of the suggestions except requiring Unlimited to fly "Freestyle or 3D" (whatever you want to call it). Remember not all pilots who compete like that type of flying, nor do they wish to put their plane through that kind of abuse. To lose the few limited pilots (as stated earlier 4 or 5 per contest) because they don't wish to fly free/3d would hurt the club holding the event. Now for another point of view.........do we open this up to the basic class? What if we open it up to anyone, even those not competing?....... .

Unlimited would be getting a 10% bonus added to thier IMAC scores for flying the free. If they look at their scores and determine that it wouldn't hurt/help them they can opt not to fly the free. Then again the cash prize is still there to tempt them.

The Free would be open to everyone that chooses to enter it. They would not need to be entered in the IMAC contest to do so. I do think that we would have to limit the free to 15 contestants so we don't run into a time issue.

Judging should be by IMAC guidlines. The intent is to have a freestyle format the same as at the TAS. This gives the guys that aspire to be in the TAS invatational an avenue to gain experience.

As far as safety is concerned, we have that pretty well covered I think. usually the deadline is the far edge of the runway. If any freestyle pilot breaks the deadline he is told to end his flight and land. If one has doubts about being able to maintain a deadline they should re-consider entering.

Garrett, Lodi sounds good, can you handle talking with the club and see if they would like to sponsor the event, I can get with Anna and work out the details on that end including the date. I think if we are going to do this I want to get started now so that we have all the details sorted out and time to get
manufacturers/vendors support.


maybe we should rename this thread as well
Shawn

[Tailchaser]

Having a contest at Lodi would be a great idea, great club, a lot of participation from club members, and the field is a perfect place to hold it. The sun is at your back and no house's close at all.
I hope Garrett and Shawn get it going, if you need a hand just let me know!

Chuck

[Andy540T]

Shawn,

As I have told you in the past, I will help with what ever you need.