Local area club in trouble - IT CAN HAPPEN!

[SleepyC]

Hey guys check this out.
One of the local area clubs the "Corsair Model Aircraft Club" looks to be in a bind.
The club has been around for over 38 years, and have flown in the same place for over 38 years. There has never been any complaints, or problems.

A new park director stepped in, and basically decided that the club simply does not need to fly at that location.

Check this article out.

Shouldn't the AMA step in here? This is an AMA club!

Whats your thoughts?

If the jpeg is not clear enough I have attached a pdf of the scanned image.

[3D-Seth]

Thats crazy! I would think the AMA would do something about that . . .

[Judge]

What exactly do you think the AMA should do?? In truth, the AMA has no magical powers and has no secret weapons to step in with and make these awful situations go away.

What AMA can do it advise the club on successful methods for dealing with public agencies and provide information about other similar situations.

The sad fact is that the public agencies have a perfect right to control what goes on in their jurisdiction. There are no legal grounds to challenge that authority.

In my District (X) our VP (Rich Hanson) has attended many meetings with public agencies to assist clubs and show the colors as it were. But in the end it is up to the clubs themselves to work with any controlling authority to resolve these types of issues.

I would suggest that the club contact their AMA District VP and also the East Coast AMA person (Joe Beshar) who helps with site problems.

[NCFRgal]

OK, so, is there anything that the Flying Giants bretheren can do? Perhaps a letter writing/e-mail campaign? Because the "squeeky wheel gets the grease".

Marian

[mndbndr3d]

Wow! i was just at that flying field a couple weeks ago visting from Cali. It's a nice flying site. Too bad your having that type of trouble.

I use to fly at a nice flying site several years ago in Orange County California (Mile square park), that flying site has been there as long as yours and we lost it to a Golf site developer. The Club fought the developer in court for many years before they ended loosing the site. what makes it bad too is that the site already have a Golf course next to it and they just want to take over the field to expand. Greediness!!!

Well, I wish you guys luck. hope you guys don't loose that field.

[Spdstr280Z]

I think the AMA should assist the club, but it might be in the form of assistance finding or developing a new site, or supporting them with positive PR and understanding of the hobby if the parks board is open to the possibility of changing the rules.

It being "public" land muddies the situation a bit, but really like Judge said, the AMA has no legal power or leverage here to sway the managers of the land.

Don't misunderstand, I think it is a shame and I hope that they can work something out, but look at it like this, say you buy 10 acres with the intention of building a nice house and farm for your family. The land has been used for years by an active hunting club. If you aren't comfortable with hunting going on in close proximity to your family, you are going to ask them to leave. You are the owner of the property, they have to abide. Especially if they have no contract and have been paying no rent.

Again, I really feel for the club and hope they can work it out, it looks like a really nice site. But as far as the AMA stepping in, there isn't much they can do to "fight" it. Looking at it from a positive view, a years notice was a nice thing to do, and 38 years was a good run.....

Jason

[Crashmaster]

What CAN be done (and right now would be a good time) is to communicate, communicate, communicate. It sounds like the governing body has plans for the park that are in conflict with having the club's activities. But if there is even a chance of a compromise they must get as many decision makers as possible to understand fully what happens whey you fly a model at the site. Give them demonstrations. Show them the club rules. Show them the AMA rules. Show them that the club has a clearly defined governing body WITH a safety officer. Let them know that in 38 years of flying at that site you have had only x (hopefully none) "incidents" where anybody was put at risk. Show them that your models are "no more noisy than "x" which happens every day in any neighborhood (you define "x"). Most of all, SHOW THEM THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO WORK WITH THEM and LISTEN! Ask questions to figure out what their REAL concerns are, and see if you can address them! Right now, many of these decision makers may be believing in MYTHS about our hobby that must be dispelled!

By the way, having a plan "B" in finding an alternative site (which is what they seem to be doing) is the right thing to do, but ASK THE GOVERNING BODY TO HELP YOU! See if they have another piece of land that they WOULD be willing to let you use that is suitable.

This is by no means a comprehensive list, but it is a good start in my opinion.

[sweetpea]

The only way to solve it is to have enough people from the VOTING area to contact the director and or city (council).

We are going through this right now in Vegas. One person is complaining and has the ear of the City Council. Our Club is being restricted on when we can fly and soon the noise level of what you can fly.


Remember the city works for you the voters. More public press (as long as its on your side) is good and keep letting them know that the VOTERS disagree with the situation. Otherwise they will care less

[66stang]

I don't want to hear what the AMA can't do, I want to hear what they CAN DO. So let's hear from somebody from the AMA on this.

[SleepyC]

	Quote:
	What exactly do you think the AMA should do?? In truth, the AMA has no magical powers and has no secret weapons to step in with and make these awful situations go away.

Judge I agree 100%.
I'm saying exactly what you mentioned. I think the club could use some decent guidance.
Considering that the land is PUBLIC, it really is up to the city council. But it seems to me from this and another article I read that the city council was interested in listening, and the park director was not, and mooted the point.

[SleepyC]

FOUND IT! Both of them

Fron June 25th Editorial:

Change the flight plan
The Metro Parks take priority over the Corsair Model Aircraft Club
Published on Wednesday, Jun 25, 2008

The Corsair Model Aircraft Club is in a no-fly zone. For 38 years, the club has enjoyed informal access to the county fairgrounds in Tallmadge. But when Summit County donated 290 acres of vacant land north of the fairgrounds to Metro Parks last year, the skies became unfriendly. The new park property wraps around the club's airfield on three sides, and park regulations bar remote-controlled craft of any kind. That leaves the club with an airfield but no airspace.
This week, during an appearance before the County Council, Carol Curtis, the chairwoman of Metro Parks, Serving Summit County, made clear the one viable option for the long term: Finding a better site for the model-aircraft enthusiasts. She said that when new trails are opened next year, the club will not be permitted to operate its craft over park land.
It is unrealistic to expect Metro Parks to carve out an exemption, as some County Council members are considering asking the independent parks board to do. A vote on a council resolution could come this Monday, although it would not be binding.
For its part, the parks board must consider as top priorities the safety of its visitors and their desire to experience a removed and tranquil setting. Once the land was transferred, those priorities took precedence over the activities of the model-aircraft club. Nothing in the agreement between the county and the parks mentioned the club, which merely assumed someone would watch out for its interests. Keith Shy, the parks director, questions whether the club even belongs at the fairgrounds, a site supposedly dedicated to agricultural pursuits.
Well-intentioned as it is, the County Council should put aside its resolution. The Corsair Model Aircraft Club, meanwhile, should drop its plan to make a pitch to the parks board and focus on finding a more suitable location for its activities.
The Corsair Model Aircraft Club is in a no-fly zone. For 38 years, the club has enjoyed informal access to the county fairgrounds in Tallmadge. But when Summit County donated 290 acres of vacant land north of the fairgrounds to Metro Parks last year, the skies became unfriendly. The new park property wraps around the club's airfield on three sides, and park regulations bar remote-controlled craft of any kind. That leaves the club with an airfield but no airspace.
This week, during an appearance before the County Council, Carol Curtis, the chairwoman of Metro Parks, Serving Summit County, made clear the one viable option for the long term: Finding a better site for the model-aircraft enthusiasts. She said that when new trails are opened next year, the club will not be permitted to operate its craft over park land.
It is unrealistic to expect Metro Parks to carve out an exemption, as some County Council members are considering asking the independent parks board to do. A vote on a council resolution could come this Monday, although it would not be binding.
For its part, the parks board must consider as top priorities the safety of its visitors and their desire to experience a removed and tranquil setting. Once the land was transferred, those priorities took precedence over the activities of the model-aircraft club. Nothing in the agreement between the county and the parks mentioned the club, which merely assumed someone would watch out for its interests. Keith Shy, the parks director, questions whether the club even belongs at the fairgrounds, a site supposedly dedicated to agricultural pursuits.
Well-intentioned as it is, the County Council should put aside its resolution. The Corsair Model Aircraft Club, meanwhile, should drop its plan to make a pitch to the parks board and focus on finding a more suitable location for its activities.






From the Akron Beacon Journal July 1, 2008:

Corsair club just wants a fair hearing
By John Ashley


Published on Tuesday, Jul 01, 2008
In a June 25 editorial, headlined ''Change the flight plan,'' the Beacon Journal editorial board argued that the Corsair Model Aircraft Club should just leave the Summit County Fairgrounds. May I offer a different opinion?
When the property was transferred to the Metro Parks, Serving Summit County, our club took note and decided to approach the park officials to learn more about their plans. Summit County officials believed that Metro Parks would not interfere with the fairgrounds.
On April 3, we arranged a meeting at the Metro Parks offices. Within five minutes, Keith Shy, the Metro Parks director, informed us that we did not belong at the fairgrounds and had to leave. He said he would ''allow'' us until Dec. 31, 2009, to cease operations and move. He said he would help find a new location. He spoke with the assurance of someone who had the necessary authority. He gave us documents, including a map of the park with the notation ''Model Airplane Field'' on the fairgrounds.
In May, I discovered documentation that we were on the fairgrounds by permission of Summit County government. That permission has never been revoked.
Also in May, Russ Pry, the Summit County executive, met with Shy. Permission to be on the fairgrounds was affirmed, but Shy prohibited flying over the Metro Parks land.
Pry sponsored a second meeting on June 4 that included our club officers, County Councilman John Schmidt and Council President Nick Kostandaras. Shy was questioned by the councilmen. The Metro Parks map with the notation ''Model Airplane Field'' on it was shown. Shy was asked: Did you ever approach this group? His reply was ''no.''
The councilmen were unsatisfied with this. Shy rejected our plan that would have kept the proposed hiking trails away from our traditional flight path. He then stated that he would not or could not change the rules. But he did confirm that his board of commissioners could.
The councilmen said that they would sponsor a nonbinding resolution in our support. We said that we would begin to prepare a presentation to the Metro Parks board of commissioners, with this resolution as a ''letter of reference.''
Our club has asked to be heard in a fair and open manner. Your editorial seemed to say, ''Why bother?'' and advocated ceasing of public debate.
Metro Parks are more diverse than a ''removed and tranquil setting.'' Goodyear Metro Park is full of activity, with baseball diamonds, summer concert performances and dance performances with full-sized stages, sound and lighting. Walk along Sand Run Parkway with traffic running by.
Is Metro Parks planning to close Route 91, beside the proposed trail in the new park? Is it planning to force Kent State University's airport to change its flight path? Will the Metro Parks stop fairground activities like tractor pulls, demolition derbies and fireworks?
The county fair board and Summit County Council determine what activities are appropriate for the fairgrounds, not Keith Shy. The Corsair Model Airplane Club's use is approved.
Shy can give permission for us to fly over the park. He has declined to do so on his own authority. But he has told us we have the right to ask his board of commissioners. Your editorial seemed to assume that they will deny our request before we are even heard.
On June 23, Carol Curtis, the Metro Parks chairwoman, did not say the commissioners would automatically deny any application by our group without a hearing. Our reasons for waiting for council action before making such a formal application were clearly stated in that same meeting.
The truth is that our current location has been developed over a 38-year period and we have had no problems until now. We have invested much time and money in the current location. Our elected representatives have been very supportive in helping to resolve this issue. We understand that a majority of the council support the resolution as co-sponsors. Why should you criticize them for doing their jobs?
The truth is that Metro Parks manages over 9,000 acres; and that the overflight area we have used all these years is less than two-tenths of 1 percent of the total, or less than 10 percent of the Munroe Falls/Summit County Home property.
The truth is that local governments already support many other club activities with public facilities. Right near the airfield on the fairgrounds is the Tallmadge soccer complex; the land for this actually belongs to Summit County.
The truth is that our club is open to everyone. We sponsor free flight training and a free program in which people experience our sport. At our most recent training night, we had at least 10 club members present, helping 12 new people learn about flying.
Check your own reader forum. Support for our position is overwhelming.
We need help, not criticism. We ask you to help us share the skies with the Metro Parks. Support us in pursuing our right to be heard by the parks board of commissioners in an atmosphere of fairness and objectivity. We are not afraid to present our facts and accept their decision by due process,
In a June 25 editorial, headlined ''Change the flight plan,'' the Beacon Journal editorial board argued that the Corsair Model Aircraft Club should just leave the Summit County Fairgrounds. May I offer a different opinion?
When the property was transferred to the Metro Parks, Serving Summit County, our club took note and decided to approach the park officials to learn more about their plans. Summit County officials believed that Metro Parks would not interfere with the fairgrounds.
On April 3, we arranged a meeting at the Metro Parks offices. Within five minutes, Keith Shy, the Metro Parks director, informed us that we did not belong at the fairgrounds and had to leave. He said he would ''allow'' us until Dec. 31, 2009, to cease operations and move. He said he would help find a new location. He spoke with the assurance of someone who had the necessary authority. He gave us documents, including a map of the park with the notation ''Model Airplane Field'' on the fairgrounds.
In May, I discovered documentation that we were on the fairgrounds by permission of Summit County government. That permission has never been revoked.
Also in May, Russ Pry, the Summit County executive, met with Shy. Permission to be on the fairgrounds was affirmed, but Shy prohibited flying over the Metro Parks land.
Pry sponsored a second meeting on June 4 that included our club officers, County Councilman John Schmidt and Council President Nick Kostandaras. Shy was questioned by the councilmen. The Metro Parks map with the notation ''Model Airplane Field'' on it was shown. Shy was asked: Did you ever approach this group? His reply was ''no.''
The councilmen were unsatisfied with this. Shy rejected our plan that would have kept the proposed hiking trails away from our traditional flight path. He then stated that he would not or could not change the rules. But he did confirm that his board of commissioners could.
The councilmen said that they would sponsor a nonbinding resolution in our support. We said that we would begin to prepare a presentation to the Metro Parks board of commissioners, with this resolution as a ''letter of reference.''
Our club has asked to be heard in a fair and open manner. Your editorial seemed to say, ''Why bother?'' and advocated ceasing of public debate.
Metro Parks are more diverse than a ''removed and tranquil setting.'' Goodyear Metro Park is full of activity, with baseball diamonds, summer concert performances and dance performances with full-sized stages, sound and lighting. Walk along Sand Run Parkway with traffic running by.
Is Metro Parks planning to close Route 91, beside the proposed trail in the new park? Is it planning to force Kent State University's airport to change its flight path? Will the Metro Parks stop fairground activities like tractor pulls, demolition derbies and fireworks?
The county fair board and Summit County Council determine what activities are appropriate for the fairgrounds, not Keith Shy. The Corsair Model Airplane Club's use is approved.
Shy can give permission for us to fly over the park. He has declined to do so on his own authority. But he has told us we have the right to ask his board of commissioners. Your editorial seemed to assume that they will deny our request before we are even heard.
On June 23, Carol Curtis, the Metro Parks chairwoman, did not say the commissioners would automatically deny any application by our group without a hearing. Our reasons for waiting for council action before making such a formal application were clearly stated in that same meeting.
The truth is that our current location has been developed over a 38-year period and we have had no problems until now. We have invested much time and money in the current location. Our elected representatives have been very supportive in helping to resolve this issue. We understand that a majority of the council support the resolution as co-sponsors. Why should you criticize them for doing their jobs?

[WangoTango]

Find out what this new Parks Director is into..... Golf? Fishing? Invite him out for a meeting on a golfing or fishing outing and talk it over. Sounds like he has the ear of the walker/runners right now and is ready to boot the airplane guys by citing "non-existent crashes" as proof that they need to go elsewhere. Having a 38 year track record should account for something! This sounds like a walk/run path can be re-directed to a different area around the flying site and if so, everyone would benefit. If its a political thing and he wants to arbitrarily boot the flying guys, you can tell him that city politics will get a large dent put in it by a large voting block of modelers. It would behoove him to see to it that the interests of both the runner/walkers AND the fliers could be met and make his job a a park director a lot easier. He stands to be the hero in making the land available to ALL his taxpayers! Just a thought................
WT