JR 12X

[Mokken]

A 12x in 72mhz...I'd buy that for a dollar..or a 1k..

[STLAV8R]

Doesn't Futaba already have their 12 channel out that is on 72 mhz and 2.4?
If so, I wouldn't think the JR 12X would be too far off from being available.

[GooseF22]

Please Stop bashing 2.4. You dont know what you are talking about. forgive me for being blunt, but it needs to be said. Its here to stay and it works well. It has its quirks, but it works well. 72 will always have a place of course.

Once you understand the benefits, 2.4 outweighs 72 by a long shot but both still work.

We flew a test bed to the limits of sight yesterday on a module with a 7000, no issues. Doing some ground testing on a 4 receriver 9000. So far in ground tests at range pace 100 feet, havn't experienced any fades...not one.

[Hammbone]

	Quote: Originally Posted by GooseF22
	Please Stop bashing 2.4. You dont know what you are talking about. forgive me for being blunt, but it needs to be said. Its here to stay and it works well. It has its quirks, but it works well. 72 will always have a place of course. Once you understand the benefits, 2.4 outweighs 72 by a long shot but both still work. We flew a test bed to the limits of sight yesterday on a module with a 7000, no issues. Doing some ground testing on a 4 receriver 9000. So far in ground tests at range pace 100 feet, havn't experienced any fades...not one.

If you are refering to me, I'm not bashing 2.4Ghz just because I don't like it. I'm trying to warn others about it. Too many pilots are loosing planes to 2.4Ghz and someone may get hurt. You say 2.4Ghz has it's quirks??? There are a lot of BIG problems with the 2.4Ghz stuff. Just search the forums and see it all. You have the low voltage lock-out problem, you have rx binding problems, you do have interference problems despite what some say, you have "line of sight" problems, you have problems seeing through carbon fiber and metal, etc., etc.

The manufacturers themselves tell you that you might have problems with 2.4Ghz. They tell you that it is "line of sight", meaning that it has problems seeing around or through things. If anything gets between your rx and your tx, your rx may loose the signal and lock out. It takes a long time for 2.4Ghz rx's to reboot and you are probably going to loose your plane and you may hurt someone. What are the chances of your engine getting between your tx and your rx? What about carbon fiber getting between your tx and your rx? What about your batteries? The manufactureres (not me) are saying that this may be a problem. Now usually, a manufacturer might try to keep something like this quiet, but here they are telling us. This makes me think it's a fairly big problem or why would they even mention it?
Yet, despite this, people are still buying 2.4Ghz systems. I can't figure out why.

The only guy that has tried 2.4Ghz at my field lost his plane due to interference and rx lock out. Fortunately no one got hurt. This guy has now switched back to 72Mhz. I continue to see other people loosing their planes to 2.4Ghz fairly often on the forums. I saw just yesterday where another guy lost a plane to 2.4Ghz, a jet. Someone could have really been hurt there. How many are loosing planes to 2.4Ghz that we don't even hear about?

I will continue to warn people. If you don't want to listen to me, I can't make you, but maybe someone will listen and it may keep them from loosing their plane or getting hurt.

In my opinion, this 2.4Ghz stuff should be taken off the market until the problems have been fixed.


Jim

[klhoard]

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No problems with 2.4 at my field. . . planning on switching this winter. Perhaps its your field altitude?
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[Hammbone]

All the people having problems with 2.4Ghz on the forums do not fly at my field.

Jim

[ricmussman]

The problem with 2.4 isn't the technology, it is the set-up and peoples spine. There are several people at our field that use Spektrum's with no problems. I fly Giant Scale no probs, I have friends that fly Jets, Heli's, Electric, Pylons (With Carbon) all with out problems. The guys that are having the problems are the same guys that had problems with 72mhz stuff. It is poor setup and componetry..... I looked into a guys plane and saw a birds nest of extensions and servos from the late 70's being used and he wanted me to diagnose his problem. When I told him what I thought he didn't listen, flew the plane and lost it and blamed 2.4.........

How many people crash their beloved plane and then look at the transmitter and say "I don't know, I just lost it" Chain saws are great tools but I certainly don't let my 8 year old use it. Same thing here.....

Ric

[Flatlandman]

Hambone there are a lot of assumptions in your post and a lot of associations that are not correct. Your speaking of one manufactures issues ( low volt lock out slow reconnect amongst others) and applying it to all 2.4 systems and so on. These issues are more like quarks than problems people need to power their system correctly and not apply pcm traits to 2.4 systems they are different and have diff requirements.

And how many jets and planes have mysteriously crashed on the pcm receivers... yep a lot , hundreds of thousands. 72 mh has issues also so its all about what system works for your situation.

When was the last time you encased your 72 mh antenna in carbon or rubbed that antenna against some metal and still retain your control of the rx if you answer is any thing other than never your not telling the truth.

So the sky is not falling and that the 2.4 systems as a whole are just as reliable as the 72 mh systems

[dubd]

	Quote: Originally Posted by ricmussman
	The problem with 2.4 isn't the technology, it is the set-up and peoples spine. There are several people at our field that use Spektrum's with no problems. I fly Giant Scale no probs, I have friends that fly Jets, Heli's, Electric, Pylons (With Carbon) all with out problems. The guys that are having the problems are the same guys that had problems with 72mhz stuff. It is poor setup and componetry..... I looked into a guys plane and saw a birds nest of extensions and servos from the late 70's being used and he wanted me to diagnose his problem. When I told him what I thought he didn't listen, flew the plane and lost it and blamed 2.4......... How many people crash their beloved plane and then look at the transmitter and say "I don't know, I just lost it" Chain saws are great tools but I certainly don't let my 8 year old use it. Same thing here..... Ric

You're making a lot of assumptions there. I lost a gasser with my Spektrum DX-7 and it was set-up exactly the way Horizon recommended. A friend of mine lost 2 gassers on Spektrum and they were set-up properly also. In fact, the second plane had 2 rx batteries, a Smart-Fly Super Reg, and a Power Expander. Neither one of us had issues with 72mhz.

I am not saying 2.4ghz is good nor bad, but making gross generalizations and assumptions is silly. Because you looked into one guys plane who had a poor set-up does not mean that is the case for everyone who lost a plane with 2.4ghz.

[TheTank]

Alright guys, if you want to argue about the pros and cons of 2.4 vs. 72mhz, there are other threads specifically related to that topic. Lets not hijack this thread and take it off topic. Now, back to the release date of the 12X....

[notorious_benny]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Hammbone
	If you are refering to me, I'm not bashing 2.4Ghz just because I don't like it. I'm trying to warn others about it. Too many pilots are loosing planes to 2.4Ghz and someone may get hurt. You say 2.4Ghz has it's quirks??? There are a lot of BIG problems with the 2.4Ghz stuff. Just search the forums and see it all. You have the low voltage lock-out problem, you have rx binding problems, you do have interference problems despite what some say, you have "line of sight" problems, you have problems seeing through carbon fiber and metal, etc., etc. The manufacturers themselves tell you that you might have problems with 2.4Ghz. They tell you that it is "line of sight", meaning that it has problems seeing around or through things. If anything gets between your rx and your tx, your rx may loose the signal and lock out. It takes a long time for 2.4Ghz rx's to reboot and you are probably going to loose your plane and you may hurt someone. What are the chances of your engine getting between your tx and your rx? What about carbon fiber getting between your tx and your rx? What about your batteries? The manufactureres (not me) are saying that this may be a problem. Now usually, a manufacturer might try to keep something like this quiet, but here they are telling us. This makes me think it's a fairly big problem or why would they even mention it? Yet, despite this, people are still buying 2.4Ghz systems. I can't figure out why. The only guy that has tried 2.4Ghz at my field lost his plane due to interference and rx lock out. Fortunately no one got hurt. This guy has now switched back to 72Mhz. I continue to see other people loosing their planes to 2.4Ghz fairly often on the forums. I saw just yesterday where another guy lost a plane to 2.4Ghz, a jet. Someone could have really been hurt there. How many are loosing planes to 2.4Ghz that we don't even hear about? I will continue to warn people. If you don't want to listen to me, I can't make you, but maybe someone will listen and it may keep them from loosing their plane or getting hurt. In my opinion, this 2.4Ghz stuff should be taken off the market until the problems have been fixed. Jim

This is typical spin that comes from people that dont have first hand experience with the technology and therefore do not fully understand the technology.

I sat on the sidelines for quite a while wathcing the 2.4 debate, just recently I have bitten the bullet and installed the spektrum module in my 10x with an AR 9000 rx and extra satellite in my 3.1 metre composite arf super extra.

So far I will admit I have only had 12 flights, but I will also say that I have a lot of faith in the integrity of the link. I can fly huge rolling circles, and knife edge circles without so much as a glitch. This sort of 'caper' could regularly provoke a failsafe on 36 Mhz.

The long 're-boot' times only happen from a low voltage siuation, if the rx for some reason looses a valid signal and goes into failsafe it will almost instanlty re-link as soon as valid signal returns (just like PCM). I have personally tested this on the ground doing range tests by forcing a failsafe with the reduced power button and seeing how fast re-link occurs.

As for carbon props and big engines, I would say the carbon lattice fuse of the super extra and the big 32 inch carbon prop would have proven to be an issue by now. However by using the available data logger I can land and quantitatively assess the performance of the system, and I can tell you the average number of frames I am losing in a 12 minute unlimited IMAC flight is 1! Thats right 1!!!

I can tell you a mate is using a weatronic 36mhz rx on a 3metre comp-arf 260 and when we checked his logger he is on occasion (4 or 5 times a flight) losing 10 or even 20 frames at a time. (The logger logs every second)

I really do believe that spektrum is a solid RC option, provided you take all measures neccesary to provide volts and good antenna diversity. I wouldnt be flying a $12k
model with it if I didnt trust the tech.

Bring on the 2.4 12x, I will put my name on the waiting list.

[Hammbone]

This is the attitude that I can't understand.
You think that even though all these other people are having problems, your 2.4Ghz system will work fine. You think that even though the manufacturers themselves have said that you may have problems with line of sight, your 2.4Ghz system will work fine.
All these other people have had problems and the manufacturer has told you that you might have problems, but you're willing to risk your $12k model and the safety of pilots and spectators.

I can't understand it.

Jim