Independent tests prove lack of frequency hopping with XPS

[skubacb]

Neither defending nor condemning. I am adamantly against unproven claims, false accusations, made up stories.

If there is a fact great. If it is not a fact then don't try to make it so. The test that this thread is based on does not test for XPS hoping. Yet, the title would have you believe it does. JD never stated that the antenna was isotropic yet they claimed that spherical coverage was a lie. Yet, we do have spherical coverage. Claimed that a certain chip in XPS was over clocked. It was not. Claimed that the XBee chip could not do what is was doing. It can. Claimed the XBee chip could not jump. It can. So far none of the accusations has been proven true. Showing the ticking servo (fixed and only with the 9Z) is less valid than keeping a Spectrum v1 around so you can see the elevator go randomly down. Claims that failsafe does not work. I've tried turning off my TX with an A/C in the air. It works. Claims that they could not link multiple RX with the TX. I have twenty RX and two TX and have always been able to link them. The list of unproven lies and and just plain BS goes on and on.

On the aircraft in question, I am still not certain about the cause, nor have I come to an absolute decision. Is 1800 to 2000 flights with those two enough. I just don't know. I continue to fly XPS, as I continue to fly Spectrum. I am not so sure about using my Fasst equipment until Futaba has the courage to take some more positive steps, rather than a wet towel over the AC.

What I want is proof of a specific error or problem not conjecture, stories or lies. If there was a specific flaw it would be lost in all the trash being posted.

[bodywerks]

Haven't been following the XPS saga lately. Has anyone been able to prove any XPS claims valid? To me, the people that are posting stuff showing inconsistencies in XPS claims are valid unless it can be proven otherwise. I am no rf engineer, but I am not seeing any smoke and mirrors in the tests I have seen.

[XJet]

	Quote: Originally Posted by skubacb
	Neither defending nor condemning. I am adamantly against unproven claims, false accusations, made up stories.

Like "a patent-pending 8-element antenna" that can't be found?

Like a system that "will hop away from interfering signals" but can't be demonstrated to do so by either JD or independent testers willing to put their names to such tests?

Come on, if there are any "unproven claims" around, they come from the mouth of JD.

	Quote:
	If there is a fact great. If it is not a fact then don't try to make it so.

Well at least we agree on something. Please ask JD to point out where his mythical 8-element antenna is and fulfill his promise to show the original XPS system hopping in response to potential interference. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - and we've seen nothing.

	Quote:
	The test that this thread is based on does not test for XPS hoping. Yet, the title would have you believe it does. JD never stated that the antenna was isotropic yet they claimed that spherical coverage was a lie. Yet, we do have spherical coverage.

No, with a quarter-wave groundplane antenna (which is what the XBeePro uses) you have a toroidal radiation pattern with deep dimples at each end. JD has claimed a spherical pattern but has never fronted up with the 3D plots to prove this and DigiKey have told me (and others) that it is indeed a toroidal radiation pattern with deep dimples at the poles. JD made a *big* noise about the antenna pattern for XPS being something special -- it's not -- it's just a plane quarterwave groundplane. When proof was requested for this extraordinary claim it (like the hopping proof) was simply never forthcoming.

	Quote:
	Claimed that a certain chip in XPS was over clocked. It was not.

I've not seen the proof of this either - just more *claims* from JD.

	Quote:
	Claimed that the XBee chip could not do what is was doing. It can.

Of course the XBeePro chip can do what it's doing -- it just can't do what JD said it would (which it isn't doing).

	Quote:
	Claimed the XBee chip could not jump. It can

I certainly never claimed the XBee could not jump -- I simply said it could not jump in the way that JD was claiming (ie: in response to an interfering signal and we still have no credible proof of that, despite JD's promises to provide it.

	Quote:
	So far none of the accusations has been proven true.

I'm sorry but the burden of proof lies on the shoulders of those making the extraordinary claims -- which is JD. He's provided *no* proof it hops in the manner originally described (in fact he's backtracked on those claims already). He's provided *no* proof of the mytical 8-element spherical antenna and DigiChip deny any such system on the XBeePro (why would *they* lie?).

	Quote:
	What I want is proof of a specific error or problem not conjecture, stories or lies. If there was a specific flaw it would be lost in all the trash being posted.

Well since you're so *hot* on proof -- come back when you have the proof that XPS hops as claimed and when you've got proof of JD's magic antenna. Let those who are making those extraordinary claims front up with the proof -- we've seen not a scrap of evidence in either case.

I expect your next posting to be rich with the requested evidence, after all, you wouldn't want to look like a hypocrite would you?

[Woketman]

	Quote: Originally Posted by XJet
	I expect your next posting to be rich with the requested evidence, after all, you wouldn't want to look like a hypocrite would you?

Well Scubacb, it looks like you have had quite the gauntlet laid in front of you! Please do not hesitate to prove Xjet wrong in a timely manner.

Silence? No evidence of XPS claims?

Just another Fanboy!!!

[Dustflyer]

I think this guy is just messing with us. The facts and evidence of the faultiness and unreliability of XPS are indisputable. When someone endlessly denies reality you have to question intentions. Scubacb is playing you guys like a violin. Unfortunately the song will never end as long as you continue to play along.

Scubacb? I wonder. Could he and all the rest really be JD under different member names? I am beginning to have my suspicions.

XPS is a creature, a multi-headed monster that only lurks in the darkness of internet forums. It lives and breeds there but never strays to the light of legitimate media outlets. Feed any of its heads and it stays alive. Maybe it's time to stop feeding it.

[jonkoppisch]

	Quote: Originally Posted by wrightme
	Similar tactics are used by Michael Moore. You are in good company.

Well, evidently they thought that 4 models lost to xps/ifs in 1 event was enough proof that something was wrong and banned them & this was one of the models that crashed.. Maybe it's not enough proof for you but it must be for them...



jd says that he's sold 50,000 systems now. I'm surprised that only 1 of them made it to seff.. Of course, if i remember right he also said that there were more xps systems atSeff than Fasst systems.. I still haven't seen any vids of xps stuff/demo's at Joe Nall

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...8#post10051888

	Quote: Originally Posted by JimDrew
	We were basing our 1 million flights estimates on only 20 flights per customer. We have sold tens of thousands of full systems and obviously even more receivers.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...63#post9976763

	Quote: Originally Posted by JimDrew
	You need to get the numbers from Tony Stillman, the AMA district rep who ran the event. We were told at the AMA meeting at Joe Nall that we had more systems in use than Futaba. We also informed Tony that several of our customers came forward and admitted that they had their planes turned on, but sitting on the ground because they wanted to see if there would be any issues.

Got to wonder why they just turned them on and didn't fly them

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...25#post9976425

	Quote: Originally Posted by JimDrew
	We know that we had more of our systems in use than FASST systems for the world record. The event organizer has all of the numbers.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...25#post9976425

	Quote: Originally Posted by IPFlyer
	SPOILER ALERT! Here are the official numbers as submitted to Guiness. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=338 <insert> Hi All, Here's the final rundown. Everything has been double checked and all numbers add up. Final count, this is what I'll be sending to Guinness: 99 ( we had one person stand in the wrong line for counting) 2 pilots on 53 Mhz 4 pilots on 50 Mhz 41 pilots on 72 Mhz 52 pilots on 2.4 gig 1 XPS 1 Futaba 50 JR/Spectrum Those who did not make it. 5 2.4 Gig 6 72 Mhz One midair that only took out one plane One low battery fall out 4 who did not start the attempt 114 for the range check Thanks to everyone. <end> Yup, looks like a clear majority to me! LMAO!

[GBR2]

At the time Tychoc and Kiwi were doing their tests looking for the ability of XPS to move to another "channel" when encountering an interfering signal, they were doing so based on JD statements like this:

"We are the ONLY 2.4GHz system that has the ability to monitor the available frequencies in the 2.4GHz range and change as necessary, in real time. This means that the plane as well as the transmitter can make the change occur. If you flew your plane over a school with a huge 14dbi external 802.xx antenna, that would likely be cause for switching to a new frequency (away from whatever channel that 802.xx was on)"

So in reality, they were testing for XPS hopping. It was only later that JD starting saying that XPS's ability to "hop" required these mysterious circumstances, which he refused to say what they were. Only much later did he start to reveal what was needed and then admitting that the hopping scheme was more a range extension scheme than one really designed to counter interferance. The end result really is that whatever ability XPS has to hop is just not a useful ability.

[Edge 540]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Dustflyer
	I think this guy is just messing with us. Scubacb? I wonder. Could he and all the rest really be JD under different member names? I am beginning to have my suspicions.

Yeah, like I pointed out several pages ago. There are about a half dozen fg members who spontaneously show up, post ONLY on 2.4 related discussion supporting or defending XPS and never venture anywhere else. It's a shame really. FG is such a great site with so many other topics/ videos/ pics etc etc etc.

Do they really think it isn't obvious what they're doing?

[Toumal]

	Quote: Originally Posted by skubacb
	What I want is proof of a specific error or problem not conjecture, stories or lies.

Dude, I'm telling you: as long as the receiver and transmitter need a working link to be able to hop, there will be situations when XPS should hop, but can't. JD himself has stated that a "slowly rising" interference is what XPS needs to hop. Use logic thinking.
The antenna has a severe falloff when the tip points at you, and the attenuation can be severe enough for you to lose the signal. Do a range check with various antenna orientations if you don't believe me.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Jim Drew
	We know that we had more of our systems in use than FASST systems for the world record. The event organizer has all of the numbers.

	Quote: Originally Posted by IPFlyer
	1 XPS 1 Futaba 50 JR/Spectrum

That qualifies as "0wned".

Also...



(from http://translate.google.com/translat...F8&sl=de&tl=en )

[Simpleton]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Edge 540
	Yeah, like I pointed out several pages ago. There are about a half dozen fg members who spontaneously show up, post ONLY on 2.4 related discussion supporting or defending XPS and never venture anywhere else. It's a shame really. FG is such a great site with so many other topics/ videos/ pics etc etc etc. Do they really think it isn't obvious what they're doing?

To be fair, there are a few FG members who post in nothing but XPS threads that are not XPS supporters/defenders.

[Woketman]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Simpleton
	To be fair, there are a few FG members who post in nothing but XPS threads that are not XPS supporters/defenders.

That's me!!!!
That's me!!!!
That's me!!!!

[Edge 540]

Maybe we should have 2.4Giants. That way everyone can disgard the whole "hobby" part of the deal and get right to the good stuff. haha