Official Futaba 6EX, 7C and TM-7 Service Advisory

[Panzlflyer]

Sweetpea, I am in the same boat re impounds etc.
At our last flyin here in sleepy NC almost half of the 50 pilots were on 2.4 throwing in a few loose cannon radios will be fun.
Oh well! got at least till May to sort it out.

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by sweetpea
	The only thing that worries me is that Futaba doesn't know why it happened or how. They are assuming that radios left the factory that way.

Given that they have been at this a week I am not sure that anyone outside of Futaba can say for sure what Futaba does and does not know. Hobbico stated that they have not been able to replicate the fault and they assume the bad ones came from the factory that way.

I CAN state that I know for a fact that they are working diligently to resolve this issue and once they have all the facts they will inform the end user what needs to be done.

	Quote:
	Of course we are only into week 1 of them even having the radios in hand and I don't expect an answer this fast. The advisory is a good start at stopping the problem from getting worse.

Good you recognize this, but your opening statement indicates that there is still some level of concern.

	Quote:
	The more people informed online----means the more people informed at the field. The more informed at the field means that "WE" as model community will catch most of that last 10% and let them know to have the radio looked at.

We all make the mistake of thinking that most modelers spend as much time online as we do. Most do not.

[XJet]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Judge
	Given that they have been at this a week I am not sure that anyone outside of Futaba can say for sure what Futaba does and does not know. Hobbico stated that they have not been able to replicate the fault and they assume the bad ones came from the factory that way.

Well with the probability of failure (according to the calculations I posted earlier) probably being in the region of once in 15,000 power-cycles, it's not surprising that they couldn't reproduce the problem by flicking the switch a few dozen times on a handful of radios.

Perhaps they ought to employ the services of an experienced microcontroller engineer to provide some consulting advice on how best to test this stuff and to advise on the probably cause/remedy.

I'm sure Futaba will be looking very hard at the issue but Hobbico might want to get some other brains working on this as well -- given how very critical it is to their reputation and the future of Futaba in the 2.4GHz market right now.

[aviti]

Well one good thing has come of this issue. It shut up some people with the brand war crap..."My brand doesn't have any issues". Spektrum (reboot), Futaba (GUID) and XPS (hopping?)...Now once all this stuff is worked out, hopefully we can all fly together without frequency pins and look back on these issues as growing pains.

[Boulder]

	Quote: Originally Posted by XJet
	Well with the probability of failure (according to the calculations I posted earlier) probably being in the region of once in 15,000 power-cycles, it's not surprising that they couldn't reproduce the problem by flicking the switch a few dozen times on a handful of radios. Perhaps they ought to employ the services of an experienced microcontroller engineer to provide some consulting advice on how best to test this stuff and to advise on the probably cause/remedy. I'm sure Futaba will be looking very hard at the issue but Hobbico might want to get some other brains working on this as well -- given how very critical it is to their reputation and the future of Futaba in the 2.4GHz market right now.

Is it possible that Futaba already has a micro controller engineer on staff? After all, they did design these systems in the first place...just a thought.

And the "probability of failure", of which you speak, is only valid IF the issues that have happened, which I believe stands at 4 that we're aware of, were an issue of the GUID being inadvertently reset and not due to the fact the systems were set incorrectly at the factory...again...just a thought.

[XJet]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Boulder
	Is it possible that Futaba already has a micro controller engineer on staff? After all, they did design these systems in the first place...just a thought.

Yeah... but look at what a dismal job he did. I've spoken with a number of other embedded design engineers over the current system and none of them can believe that any professional design engineer would make such a fundamental error in design.

So would this guy (whoever he is) really be the best person to fix the problem -- since they obviously don't really understand the implications of the choices they're making in respect to the technology they're using?

	Quote:
	And the "probability of failure", of which you speak, is only valid IF the issues that have happened, which I believe stands at 4 that we're aware of, were an issue of the GUID being inadvertently reset and not due to the fact the systems were set incorrectly at the factory...again...just a thought.

Well there's now another report of someone who successfully induced a zero GUID situation by simply cycling the power on his transmitter a number of times.

And then there's Julez from Germany who also had his transmitter change from a valid to zero GUID for no apparent reason.

That's kind of conclusive don't you think?

If Hobbico or Futaba are still suggesting that it's *not* a power-cycle issue then they really *do* need outside help.

[Boulder]

XJet,

I wish I had the answers, I really do. I just have to believe that this will all get worked out.

I believe I included Julez in my count, not sure though.

[Windecker]

	Quote: Originally Posted by XJet
	Lots of folks are probably wondering "what are the chances of my system developing a zero GUID" -- so I thought I'd do some "back of a table-napkin" calculations to see. Before I start I have to say that I've made a few assumptions here that may or may not be correct so there are no guarantees that these figures are accurate

What is the point of even reading past this statement?

Will Berninger

[sweetpea]

This was a report from RCgroups today.

	Quote: Originally Posted by RyanPSU21
	Alright. So, today I was trying to prove to myself that this wouldn't switch to ZGUID that easily so I turned mine on and off a few times in less then 5 seconds. Each time waiting long enough to see the screen pop on the bottom. Yes, it did become unbound to the reciever and all 3 of my recievers that were previously unbound to it.

No proof its at Zguid.....but per Futaba's advisory it should be sent in. Regardless if the unit is at Zguid, there is an issue causing it to unbind......

these radios are on the lower end of the market.......thus aimed at the sport/park flyers that are maybe not as careful as the guys who spend $1k+ for a radio. So there is at least 2 fixes that I see (or at least a warning taped to the front of the transmitter so you can see it before you turn it on.....as so many people never bother to open an instruction manual!)

1) Perm fix so no radio will get Zguid
2) the switch either needs a blatant warning or a perm fix

They may or may not be related problems. I'll let Futaba answer that.

[Windecker]

	Quote: Originally Posted by sweetpea
	This was a report from RCgroups today. No proof its at Zguid.....but per Futaba's advisory it should be sent in. Regardless if the unit is at Zguid, there is an issue causing it to unbind...... these radios are on the lower end of the market.......thus aimed at the sport/park flyers that are maybe not as careful as the guys who spend $1k+ for a radio. So there is at least 2 fixes that I see (or at least a warning taped to the front of the transmitter so you can see it before you turn it on.....as so many people never bother to open an instruction manual!) 1) Perm fix so no radio will get Zguid 2) the switch either needs a blatant warning or a perm fix They may or may not be related problems. I'll let Futaba answer that.

Did I miss something or did he state it was unbound to 3 rx's that were unbound already?
Will Berninger

[XJet]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Windecker
	What is the point of even reading past this statement? Will Berninger

All I was trying to do was to bring a little sound methodology and science into the issue of trying to determine the scale and scope of the problem -- something nobody (including Futaba) have bothered to do yet.

Now, if Futaba were to plug in their figures (in respect to memory write cycle-time, frequency of the write and number of units sold) then we would likely have a very accurate indication of just how bad this problem is likely to be -- but in the meantime the figures I've come up with are "best estimates" and serve to demonstrate the methodology involved.

All the other postings (including Futabas) *ARE* just speculation -- at least my figures are based on not unreasonable estimates based on many years experience in RC and embedded systems.

They indicate that the sky isn't falling -- and shows just why it's taken so long for this problem to surface.

That should make the pro-Futaba users feel a little less vulnerable.

If Futaba don't want to plug their figures into the calculations I've given or point out any errors in the assumptions being made or the methodology being used then one could be tempted to think that it's because I've been way too conservative in my estimates.

[Julez]

Hi!

http://forum.robbe.com/viewtopic.php?t=370

According to robbe, the german Futaba distributor, "Futaba's engineers have realized the problem, and are working at full speed on a solution to prevent it in the future".

BTW, today I got the confirmation that my TX arrived at the service center.

Cheers,

Julez