Official Futaba 6EX, 7C and TM-7 Service Advisory

[Boulder]

	Quote: Originally Posted by 1bwana1
	Boulder, Close, but not the same. 1.) The auto industry tracks each part in each vehicle by ID number, so they can identify each individual car that has the problem. If Futaba is testing their own inventory by hand, that means they don't know for sure what radios are affected. Thus requiring all users to show up and be tested. Not far off of what the auto industry does, they'll take a vehicle or part and incorporate all that were made or installed between XX/XX/XXXX and XX/XX/XXXX to have them checked for a defective part. They don't have any way of knowing if a possible defective part was installed in my vehicle or not, that's why they use the blanket recall. The defective parts may have all been made at the same factory or installed on the same line, but all of the parts may not have been defective. 2.)They send out letters to the owners, as well as advertise so that people they can't find have a chance to learn about it. Understood, but in this case it seems that the manufacturer is doing all that's possible to bring this to light, geez...it's only the first day. 3.) Most importantly, they don't replace the defective part with the same part, with the same potential defect, This may be the case here, if in fact, the GUID can change after manufacturing for any reason. You or I have absolutely no way of knowing that, let's give them the benefit of the doubt, ok? 4.) Even the auto industry wouldn't be so brazen as to propose a huddle before you drive solution. C'mon Steve...that has no validity in this scenario. If we want to use the auto industry as our model, I would prefer that Futaba do a better job than the auto industry. It is well known that the auto industry does financial calculations that weigh the cost of lawsuits from injured/dead customers, against the cost of a general recall, and decide which way is cheaper. Do we want Futaba to make a similar calculation about the loss of our planes?

As for the last part of your statement, you trust the auto industry every time you get in, or put your family in, your vehicle.

[1bwana1]

Boulder,
Agreed, not that I'm always comfortable with that. LOL I drove race cars for almost 20 years, I can tell you, that when a problem with a part was identified, it came out of the car until the manufactorer was sure it was OK. Still didn't have a perfect record, but did the best they could.

[dubd]

	Quote: Originally Posted by 1bwana1
	Boulder, 4.) Even the auto industry wouldn't be so brazen as to propose a huddle before you drive solution.

LOL

[dick hanson]

	Quote: Originally Posted by 1bwana1
	Boulder, Agreed, not that I'm always comfortable with that. LOL I drove race cars for almost 20 years, I can tell you, that when a problem with a part was identified, it came out of the car until the manufactorer was sure it was OK. Still didn't have a perfect record, but did the best they could.

Being an old fart - I worked at Community Chev -in Las Vegas -1958- Chev had an air ride - for about 3 months then "Poof" they never had one - fastest bit of footwork I ever saw ! It was a disaster of the first water
At the same time a really sinister defect was found which was quietly kicked under the carpet.
Pulling the shift lever from drive to low (Gr on Turboglide) would fully open the four barrel carb ! instant wild acceleration-
seems that mud could accumulate between the pressure control rod (from the carb) and the selector rod (from the shifter.)
we quietly upgraded cars as they came in - changing to an upgraded lever on the trans. hush hush jobs----

[DR10044]

Being a FASST owner I have been very pleased with how fast they have responded. I am not sure what more they could be doing. They are working the problem and standing behind their product. I shipped my transmitter to the service center today. I also have a new 12FG 2.4. I am very pleased with both. Also being in the software industry for 30 years software/firmware will have bugs. No matter how much you test or what type of QA you have the only absolute is there will be problems. It is how the vendor handles those problems that make or break the product and vendor. Futaba has been around for years. I have no doubt they will do the right thing. I still feel much safer turning on my 2.4 (regardless of the brand) than my old 72 radios.

[GREAT PLANES]

Hi, Gents-

Sorry I wasn't able to get back to this one earlier. It's my son's birthday so we took him out for dinner, gifts and so on.

Anyhow, one thing I wanted to emphasize is that just because we've not been able to reproduce the issue thus far doesn't mean that we're no longer testing and evaluating this. The precautionary statements are simply that...we've had a customer tell us that he/she noted the difficulty and as such, we (Futaba and Great Planes) would rather be safe than sorry. As a long-time modeler myself, I would prefer that someone tell me this than to simply ignore the issue all together.

Mark

[crhammond]

I'm glad Futaba has divulged the information it has and is taking care of things the way they are.

In the mean time as this issue continues to be looked at...

As a CD I will be asking the folks with FASST systems (that includes me) to do some self-checking.

If the issue is very isolated and it turns out the radios can't change codes in the field then it's unlikely to happen. If that's not the case it's a sticky situation because you just never know... and as Sleepy pointed out the burden falls to the CD to now have to know about and somehow account for this issue as the CD is responsible to the flyers to do whatever they can to control the frequencies at fun flies and contests.

My main worry is folks not knowing about the advisory and showing up at a fun fly with a number of other FASST systems. Let’s just hope the code cannot be 0'ed in the field and that this really is an isolated event.

With 2.4 there are a lot of "loose cannons" too... At a fun fly last year we tried to impound the 2.4GHz radios - reason being some are module based and there are people switching form 72 to 2.4GHz. We were trying to limit the chance of mistakes... you cannot believe the grief we got - it came to the point of having to send some guys packing! Getting people to actually check is going to be hit and miss...


I'm curious to know from Futaba/Hobbico if there is some technical reason this cannot happen on the higher-end module based systems? Is the design different in some way that prevents this Or is it just that no one has reported it? That is a very important distinction IMO.

[sweetpea]

Ok----

I've read alot of responses on several forums about having the FASST flyers check their radios prior to flying with each other (which seems logical) to stop any problems.....

But think about this scenario.

The reason I ask.... the power switch issue does pertain "if and only if" cycling power sets your guid to zero.

Why? ......here's my contest example.

We have 3 FASST users. They all turn on and are unaffected by each other before the contest during the CD intiated test. What we didn't know at the time is pilot #3 already had a zero guid.

Pilot 1 is about to fly but for some reason turns his radio on/off quickly (for whatever reason).

1. He remembers after the fact that he now put his radio to zero guid. He figures, what's the harm, the other flyers didn't interfere so I'm good to go on zero. He attempts to rebind....but Pilot #3 is already flying......in the dirt he goes

2. He doesn't remember anything (more likely here). He simply turns his radio on and can't understand why his plane isn't working....meanwhile Pilot #3 was flying.....is now in the dirt.

[dubd]

I also want to know why this issue can not happen with the higher end modules.

[1bwana1]

Mark,
Best wishes to you and your Son. Thanks for coming on and keeping us up to date. I do believe you, Great Plains, and Futaba are doing your best to resolve all of the issues. As many of us have pointed out, we understand that things can go wrong during manufacturing, and it seems you have an acceptable plan for dealing with radios that were shipped with the ZGUID problem. Great job on that one. What we are looking for is information that confirms/clears the changing GUID problem, and reasons why the higher end radios cannot have the problem. I know you probably don't have this information yet. In fact, I would be surprised if the problem was that easy to run down. I look forward to your updates as you learn more.

[bodywerks]

	Quote:
	I think the idea is for all the FASST 6 & 7 channel guys to do a little Pow-Wow at the event and just check their stuff t'gether... if during the event no one has a Re-Link occurrance..... there will be no problem. That is likely not intended to be a forever procedure.. but until everyone gets a grip on the technical issues.

From what I gather, it sounds like a little morning Pow-wow won't work. You are assuming that no one will turn their tx on and off too quickly throughout the day and lose their GUID. Heck, the guy at the impound could sabotage all of them and reset everybody's. Once this happens, all info gathered at the pow-wow becomes useless.

	Quote:
	I am wondering if they intend to replace all planes lost to the ZGUID issue, or if posting of precautions 1 through 3 gives them an out on that issue....

I sure hope not! a VERY small number of the word's population of rc flyers come on this or any forum, or visit any websites. Until all radios have been checked out/repaired, the liability should remain on the manufacturer.
With that said, between this, and other website postings, and flyers posted at flying sites and clubs, and word of mouth (which is how I found out), I am sure they will get this sorted out ASAP. I know a lot of people have been waiting for a viable Futaba 2.4 system, so I hope it gets sorted out quickly.

[sweetpea]

As do I. I want all 3 2.4 systems to work.