Kiwi's XPS test results are up.

[XJet]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Simpleton
	Glad to see you're not really banned from the XPS forum on RCG, Xjet. Just more smoke and mirrors, I guess?

Another JD "mis-truth" me thinks :-)

[tadawson]

	Quote: Originally Posted by XJet
	It's all a matter of ratios Tim. A weak RF source just a few inches away can produce exactly the same field-strength as a more powerful source at some distance (especially if directional antennas are being used).

Obviously. But no matter what antenna is used, inverse-square losses still apply. I must admit, when I made my comment, I was thinking of the guy with the 3watt video TX that was practically touching the XPS antenna when he tested, and for a typical remote source to give that kind of field strength, well, is very unlikely, unless you are right on top of it. Let's admit facts here - most flying fields are not sitting right on top of NexRad sites and similar emitters, and the WiFi crap just can't do it, no matter what antenna you have on it not enough antenna gain possible at that distance with the input power limitations. Same with ATV - the distance will still reduce the field strength to a point that it won't be that hot. . . . For the other tests, I don't recall seeing any data on what field strengths were being used, so probably spoke a bit too soon.

And as far as Futaba and Spektrum, one of the things that has not been considered is that their performing under similar conditions may well be due to a better front end design, but it might also be due to a less sensitive receiver . . .

- Tim

[tadawson]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Kiwi
	Tim, What I dont understand is despite my very bush mechanic testing and testing by others in some very good labs no matter how you move a conflicting signal into the XPS channel you cannot make it move.

Yet the guys at Boing have claimed to have been able to do so, and others have seen it function in flight. Data that I cannot disregard - video or not. Video is so easy to fake, that I find it to prove basically nothing . . . . remember the guy with the vid TX that put out the hoax video that he got a hop? Looked just as credible as the rest . . .

- Tim

[XJet]

	Quote: Originally Posted by tadawson
	Obviously. But no matter what antenna is used, inverse-square losses still apply. - Tim

Not true Tim.

Inverse square only applies to an isotropic radiator. Directional antennas have a lower signal loss as a function of distance and directional antennas are not uncommon on the 2.4GHz band.

Flying into the path of a signal being sent using a directional antenna will also produce a rise in the noise floor at a rate *much* faster than the 11 second period XPS apparently requires to induce a hop.

[XJet]

	Quote: Originally Posted by tadawson
	Yet the guys at Boing have claimed to have been able to do so, and others have seen it function in flight. Data that I cannot disregard - video or not.

As I've said before -- I'm sure that under exactly the right conditions, XPS *can* be induced to hop, that really isn't the issue.

The issue is whether it hops when it really needs to -- ie: when encountering a strong interfering signal.

JD's explanation and described parameters prove that it won't hop under such circumstances, something confirmed in Kiwi's tests.

If JD says it won't hop in response to interference and Kiwi's tests confirm it -- what more proof do you need?

As has been said before -- XPS's hopping is somewhat akin to a car with airbags that will only deploy very slowly and even then, only when the car has been parked for at least 11 seconds. That's because these airbags aren't to save you in the event of a crash, they're there so you can comfortably rest your head on the steering wheel. Yes, such a car has airbags -- but are they any *real* use in a smash? Hell no!

The guys from Boeing may have seen these headrests come out but that doesn't mean they're of any use in a crash. Some guys may have actually used them when feeling tired in a carpark -- but they're still useless in a smash.

	Quote:
	Video is so easy to fake, that I find it to prove basically nothing

Dead right (although I hope you're not suggesting that Kiwi has doctored his vids). But JD's admission (at last) that XPS's frequency hopping was never intended to change channels in response to interference categorically proves that the original claims made for XPS were false and that what feeble hopping ability it has is useless as an interference-protection mechanism.

Come on Tim, surely even you can see the facts now.

[easytiger]

	Quote: Originally Posted by tadawson
	Yet the guys at Boing have claimed to have been able to do so, and others have seen it function in flight. Data that I cannot disregard - video or not. Video is so easy to fake, that I find it to prove basically nothing . . . . remember the guy with the vid TX that put out the hoax video that he got a hop? Looked just as credible as the rest . . . - Tim

"Come on Tim, surely even you can see the facts now."-Xjet

No, he can't. He does not want to see.

I once did a gig in Toronto that involved being in a room full of Holocaust Deniers. No matter what evidence, even eyewitnesses, these people had an explanation. Either the video was supposed to be faked, or the witnesses lying, whatever. They would go on and on, for hours, explaining everything away. Nothing would shake them. Do you know why? They truly beleive what they are saying. It's an odd aspect to human nature, people get a notion in their heads, and nothing can shake them from that notion.
So why are you debating Tdawson? If he does not "get it" at this point, he never will.

In the meanwhile, while Mr. Dawson's jury is still out, planes are still crashing. Another jet trashed the other day, another heli gone. Evidently, these damn aircraft either do not read the internet, or they just don't read the paid shill/fanboy part, I dunno.

[easytiger]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Kiwi
	Well looks like you have some knowledge of PNG that many others would not have picked up on. To know about the cargo cult means you have either read well or visited the place. Which one?? As for things hotting up Jon it was only a matter of time. One way or the other the nuts and bolts of the XPS system will come out.

Sure, I got three degrees in Physics, Nuclear Science, and Phrenology from UPNG when I was sixteen!

[tadawson]

	Quote: Originally Posted by XJet
	Not true Tim. Inverse square only applies to an isotropic radiator. Directional antennas have a lower signal loss as a function of distance and directional antennas are not uncommon on the 2.4GHz band. Flying into the path of a signal being sent using a directional antenna will also produce a rise in the noise floor at a rate *much* faster than the 11 second period XPS apparently requires to induce a hop.

Now I think that you are the one smoking crack . . . much like there is no such thing as an isotropic radiator, there is also no known antenna that has zero divergence to the beam. And as you get further away, the beam widens, and inverse square DEFINITELY applies. All that the directional antenna gets you is more power going in a given direction - it falls off in exactly the same way, and the additional signal you get at the far end is due to more ERP at the transmitter, nothing more . . . it's all about gains, not changes in the laws of physics with regard to signal attenuation over distance . . .

- Tim

[tadawson]

	Quote: Originally Posted by easytiger
	"Come on Tim, surely even you can see the facts now."-Xjet No, he can't. He does not want to see. In the meanwhile, while Mr. Dawson's jury is still out, planes are still crashing. Another jet trashed the other day, another heli gone. Evidently, these damn aircraft either do not read the internet, or they just don't read the paid shill/fanboy part, I dunno.

Yes, I see all the facts . . . and XJet does *NOT* have a lock on facts - just some strong opinions.

Oh, and I guess that all the Futaba and Spektrum failures out there aren't happening either, at least not in your world? Damn shame that Futaba stuff can't take something as simple as the levels of heat at a lot of southern flying sites.

To make it sound like XPS is the only one with problems really makes you sound like a total dips**t . . .

My difference is I choose to both *look at* and *evaluate* the evidence, as opposed to just foam at the mouth and regurgitate and spew things that cam from others and that may not actually be factual . . . Your attitude clearly makes you a non-credible source of information - objectivity went out the window a LONG time ago in your camp!

- Tim

[Tin man]

	Quote: Originally Posted by tadawson
	Yes, I see all the facts . . . and XJet does *NOT* have a lock on facts - just some strong opinions. Oh, and I guess that all the Futaba and Spektrum failures out there aren't happening either, at least not in your world? Damn shame that Futaba stuff can't take something as simple as the levels of heat at a lot of southern flying sites. To make it sound like XPS is the only one with problems really makes you sound like a total dips**t . . . My difference is I choose to both *look at* and *evaluate* the evidence, as opposed to just foam at the mouth and regurgitate and spew things that cam from others and that may not actually be factual . . . Your attitude clearly makes you a non-credible source of information - objectivity went out the window a LONG time ago in your camp!

Have a few asterisks on me. Surely you are running low after that tantrum...
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[Chris F]

	Quote: Originally Posted by tadawson
	To make it sound like XPS is the only one with problems really makes you sound like a total dips**t . . . - Tim

Save the offensive personal stuff for RCG Tim. It is out of place here.

[XJet]

Well it looks as if the SHIrT is about to hit the FANatic pretty shortly.

Official complaints have been filed with authorities in Europe and the USA in respect to the unsubstantiated claims being made by XPS/Graupner in respect to the XPS system.

It seems that JD will have to front up with some real evidence (and "I know it works" won't cut it) to prove his claims.

I notice also that there's been a significant increase in "unexplained" failures of XPS over at the XPS support forum on RCG. These are still being dismissed as due to faulty power systems, etc -- but when some folks have found that swapping out XPS and installing Spektrum or FASST causes the problems to go away -- well what does that tell you?

I still really can't understand why JD doesn't switch to an alternative tactic: tell the truth, admit the weaknesses, fix them, sell tons of product, make a fortune.

As it is, every time he's caught out (with increasing frequency) his credibility and the reputation of the product takes another dive.

Now he's claiming there have been "a million successful flights" with XPS.

How the hell does he know that?

Just more hype.

Sigh... such an opportunity shattered all to hell by a massive ego.