Kiwi's XPS test results are up.

[sweetpea]

Here is what everyone that flys R/C knows for right now. I only speak to GS size planes in these descriptions.

FASST/Spektrum passed Kiwi's test, XPS didnot. How valid that test is to real world is debatable and will be debated for a long time.

XPS has a predictive hop method that until recently had not been shown in any tests to exist. A few reports that it happened at the field but no actually video of it on a scope switching. Many felt that the predictive method wasn't valid for realworld situations. Again debatable

Another point was that FASST/Spektrum accepted multiple main RX's to be used at the same time. XPS did not. With FASST using 2 antenna and Spektrum using at a min 3 (including the satellite) there is a greater chance that you would not have an object interfere with the RX getting the signal in all attitudes of flight. While XPS claims more antenna are not needed, many flyers (including myself) wanted more antenna. Others felt that more was an absolute

XPS new method is similar to FASST. It hops all the time. So far no one is disputing this. There is still resistance and talk about the first method because XPS lists this as an upgrade not a "fix". Had it been a fix instead of an upgrade there would still be those that slam the company for finally admitting a fault. Such is the life of business, as you can never satisfy everyone. The new version also offers the ability to bind as many RX's as you wish and the ability to have satellites (of which are still not released).


So there you have everything in a nutshell. There is still alot of he said this and only this is true/false etc but without all the B.S. that above is what it boils down to.

[RocketFuel]

So..
* Is the system now as safe as FAST and Spektrum? .
* Does the new software release give you confidence in the system?
* Are Graupner mistaken

[sweetpea]

All those questions can only be answered by you with the given information.

Folks have claimed it was just as safe from the getgo. Others have said it wasn't.

Now one could make a better argument that it is at the same level (if you didn't think it was before).

As for confidence that is upto you. I'm not made of money. XPS took too long to come out with satellites (still are not out). I wanted to switch to 2.4, I chose XPS then before I was totatlly invested I moved to Spektrum for the modules.

As for Graupner, you would have to ask them. I don't speak for them, nor does anyone on this site.

[RocketFuel]

Thanks for your comments Sweetpea.. However there are many flyers like me, that want to move into 2.4gig, and need to know that their hard earned is well spent.. I joined this forum today because of the pool of experience that it brings and the help it gives to others. I want to know the truth about 2.4gig... I am sure that there is another member who is unbiased and has the knowledge to answer my question. so.. I guess it still stands.
Happy new year to all

[sweetpea]

That was an unbiased answer. Its simple.

People have crashed on Spektrum for numerous reasons

People have crashed on FASST for numerous reasons

People have crashed on XPS for numerous reasons

This includes equipment failure, power issues, pilot error, manufacturer errors et etc etc.


When you look at the most current version of each system then everything boils down to personal choice, wallet issues and what your radio can support (assuming your going module since you put XPS in the mix)

Each of these 2.4 systems had issues and one could say they all tried to cover up or dismiss any issues. One could also say that they each fixed their shortcomings and improved their systems.


Now if your looking for a pat on the back and system to buy because someone told you so......buy a 9303 or a used 10X and put the Spektrum module in it. I fly JR so I'm biased there. Judge flys Futaba so he'll be biased there. There's a couple guys flying XPS on this thread and they will be biased there. There are those that crashed on each of these systems here as well and they will be biased on telling you not to fly that particular brand.

They are all pretty equal at skinning the cat in different ways.

[RocketFuel]

OK sweatpea, got the message.
Fact is I purchased an XPS JR module + 2 x 8 chnl receivers for my 9XII some time ago and sold them soon after (unused) on ebay because of information on these forums. I am now about to try again, and the new XPS V3 seems to read OK. I don't want a pat on the back and do not follow the pack. All I need is true information about the current state of 2.4 If you cannot give me a yes/no answer on XPS V3 please leave it to someone who can.

[Uncle Brett]

Rocket,
I think Sweetpea's response to your questions is about as unbiased and honest as you're going to get on this subject. You've said that you've already bought and sold an XPS system after reading these forums, so you know you're bound to get conflicting opinions that you'll still have to wade through.

[sweetpea]

Also there is only a handful of guys using V3 on FG. These same guys were using V2 and V1 without much issue. So far no outside testing other than the claims of the manufacturer have been accomplished.

The thing is, you've asked a question that does not have an answer yet due to time. Give it about another 6months when full saturation of V3 is out and you will have better information.

[alfred]

Your answer for what you should use is quite simple:

JR or Futaba

I know the Futaba boys have no issues
I am a JR pilot.
I run 6 helicopters with lots of metal and carbon fibre.
These are upgraded to the latest firmware version, which is what you would be getting if you would buy the system now.
I have never had so much of an inkling of a problem. In a recent major heli event, we had over 100 pilots on Spread spectrum. 98% were on Futaba or JR.
Not a single issue with any of them and I saw some truly horrible installations.
My son has a cheap DSX6i with the small AR6100 RX in a plane....no issues ever.

Most people will go with proven systems, others like to experiment.....your choice.

[Toumal]

If you look at the previous season, the verdict is pretty clear. There was only one system that was banned from a competition in germany after all planes equipped with that system failed without failsafe kicking in. (The official reason for the ban was not the fact that every XPS-equipped plane went out of control but that the motor kept running, making one model crash close to a nearby highway.)

Maybe I don't have all the information and someone can educate me about this, but I never heard of any event or competition where "several Futaba pilots lost control of their aircraft", or anything similar regarding JR. With Futaba being so dominant in europe, and Spektrum in the US, one would expect that there's a proportional amount of reports about failures with their systems, even if any such report about any system (including XPS) must be taken with a grain of salt as there can be many reasons for a loss of control.

Things were pretty clear at my field after two pilots I know very well returned their IFS modules after intermittent problems. These are not stories I heard about somewhere, I know them personally. If XPS works fine for tens of thousands of people, that's nice to hear. Still, these points alone would represent a peculiar concentration.

Last but not least, here are pictures from the German Acro Masters 2008 that I find peculiar.

http://www.acromasters.com/images/sunday/pic33.jpg
http://www.acromasters.com/images/saturday/pic18.jpg
http://www.acromasters.com/images/saturday/pic19.jpg

There's also some pics from Tucson 2008 right here on FG:

http://www.flyinggiants.com/gallery/...hp?photo=51842
http://www.flyinggiants.com/gallery/...hp?photo=51836
http://www.flyinggiants.com/gallery/...hp?photo=51834

EDIT: Just to make this clear to everyone: This is father and son Bruckmann, shown flying without IFS in both Europe and the US, in September/October 2008. This is in stark contrast to Graupner's press blurb.
Of course, other forums are abuzz with people claiming that this says nothing about the reliability of IFS/XPS V2, some users on rc-network.de even claiming that the antenna belongs to a different transmitter and you just need to look harder. Others claim that Bruckmann did fly IFS/XPS in a different machine during the Acromaster event, but photographs of this are nowhere to be found. If IFS/XPS really is such a great step forward as Bruckmann's own statements on the Graupner website suggest, why is he continually being photographed flying without it? Or could be that maybe, just maybe, he was waiting for V3?

If Markus Zeiner, one of our F3A competition pilots, were to take out his 2.4GHz R6014FS FASST receiver and put his old 35MHz stuff back in for several events in a row, I would worry about Futaba.

My opinion: If you choose XPS, make sure it's V3. Other than the lack of antenna diversity, there's little reason to believe that V3's full-time frequency hopping is inferior to Futaba.

There's been some blurbs about the possibility to put both your old HF module and an XPS/IFS module into your MC-24, but I don't know if that's simultaneous or just something you have to choose from. If it's a redundant system that transmits on both bands simultaneously, then that would make IFS/XPS a good choice even for the biggest and most expensive models.

[RocketFuel]

Thank you all for the feedback.
Sweetpea.. I certainly did not want to give the impression that you are biased, I just wanted to know if there was someone out there that had answers on v3.
I realise from all your comments that it is too soon to make a judgement on Jims electronics - I am cool with that, and will stay with 36meg for a little longer. - I currently don't have a problem with interference here at the moment, but am into electric jets in a big way.., I guess learned to be super careful with all components after I launched my first Jet-X rocket in 1954 when it raised 2 meters and flew horizontal at great speed for 100 meters and demolished itself dead center on a large pine tree..I was 10 yrs old then.
Many readers of this forum benefit from your collective expertise. Thank you...

[sweetpea]

No problem and I didn't take it personally. V3 is just too new to the market.

My personal preference is still multiple antennas. Spektrum has the best approach to this in my opinion with FASST right behind. XPS is in last until they can get out the satellites.

I also prefer some type of telemetry for the signal reception. You really don't know what you have until you use one. Spektrum has a decent one but its after the fact. Futaba has nothing and XPS has realtime telemetry but for now it is PC based so not user friendly. This is supposed to change to a handheld or radio attachement unit in '09.

I think that with XPS V3 full time hopping, using satellites and the new handheld telemetry it will be a very good competitor in the market. But it has taken a long time to get from intial release date to these options.