Problems!! 14MZ 2.4 R6014FS

[emessys]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Leardriver
	Well for what it is worth I was able to duplicate the original problem almost down to a degree of what Lazun originally reported with both a R6014FS AND a R607FS rx on the bench just a little while ago. I used a heat gun and a Raytec IR temp gun to measure temp as it increased. Within a degree of each other they both "went red" at 167-168 degrees. I was able to "reboot" them around 150 deg. Both these rx are brand new (a few weeks) and were still in the box. I bound the R607FS just for the test. The flip side of this is that the 6-7-8ch receivers have been out now for a while and I don't remember hearing anything at all regarding any type of loss of signal in the air. Maybe it happened but I don't remember hearing about it(except for the service bulletin issued by Futaba some 6-7ch tx having the same coding or ID). I am honestly thinking that there is enough air flow through the fuse that the rx should be cooler in flight than on the ground. I am thinking about getting a Venom temp gauge like we used to use in heli's to record the peak temp on the rx. I am also thinking about how I can increase cooling to the rx. Perhaps a CPU fan and some sort of ducting for outside air to be channeled over the rx. I am not sure yet. Now for those that are getting ready to say go get Spectrum...not so FAAST (couldn't help myself here...lol). A friend of mine, who is in the R/C electronics business, has actually disassembled and examined the spectrum satellite rx and taken the information right off the the chip and found per the manufacturers spec on their very own website that the chip is only rated Commercial (not industrial) and is good up to 70C or 158deg F. He has mentioned that customers have called him and mentioned the they have had a lockout or binding issue with the Spectrum setup but could not duplicate it. It is possible that they are suffering from a thermal issue as the Futaba is. Here are the specs on the Spectrum chip he sent me. By the way..I am not trying to bash JR, just trying to pass on some info that may be helpful. The guys at Spektrum use this chip CYRF6936-40LFXC in every satellite receiver they sell. This is a commercial temperature range chip, 0C-70C. See page 31 of the data sheet attached. -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------

We'll, if you could get hold of some Thermal Compound and a piece of Aluminum plate, you might try rerunning your tests with the RX sitting on the plate (with compound between the plate and the bottom of the RX) to see if the still RX craps out at the same temp.

It might advance the state of knowledge while waiting for Futaba.

Of course, a big metal heatsink in the vicinity of the 2.4Ghz antennas might not provide a flight solution.

It is possible that the component/components that are quitting are part of a bad run and the design is not at fault, or it could be that the combination of ambient temp/radiated temp absorption and internally generated heat (probably from the processor) go beyond the design limits of the RX.

I imagine some heavy duty processing is occuring to handle all those channels plus the frequency hopping algorithms etc. Thats gotta generate a lot more heat than simpler receivers (I think), assuming the same type semiconductor technology is being used.

Ira

[1bwana1]

I don't think anyone is calling people who are reporting this problem liars. OK, maybe Judge is, but they pay him well in free "T" shirts to call you names. He must have a very large collection by now. Don't freak Malvey, I'm just kidding!

Bill, from Futaba, has taken the time to post that Futaba is aware of, and is looking into, the issue. They are not calling anyone a liar, and appear to be treating the issue seriously. I'm sure Bill will let us know as soon as Futaba has an "Official" response. In the mean time, it will be up to each of us to decide whether we feel safe in flying this system or not. I can understand those who have seen the problem first hand, being the most reluctant to fly with the system.

I hope people continue to experiment, and contribute their findings to this forum. Despite the brand warriors, that somehow always end up injecting themselves into what should be a useful exploration of technical issues, discussion like this often add significantly to our knowledge base. From my perspective, it is likely that something is going on with this system, the sooner we find out what it is, and how to deal with it, the better off we will all be.

[Leardriver]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Judge
	Well, it is at least as fair as hitting it with a heat gun as another person did. [color=black][font=Tahoma]

The way you make it sound it was completely recklace and basically has no merit. Well all I did was find a way to raise the temp of the case of the receivers (read different brand new rx's!) to the reported temp in a controlled environment (on the bench) with no load and a regulated 5 volt battery. No servos. When the cases hit 167 deg on the first rx (R6014FS) it went red and would not reset until it cooled to approx 145 deg. The second rx (R607FS) did the exact same thing with 1 degree! That is exactly what the other four receivers in in the original post did...yes I spoke with them directly.

Now Judge, if you think there is an issue with trying to duplicate what has been reported than I do not know what to say. I am a Futaba supporter. I love my 12Z, it is in my opinion the best radio I have ever laid my hands on. But, I will not jeopordize my $7000 worth of 40% airplane (not to mention the liability/safety issue) if I have ANY doubts about the equipment in it! The test I performed was simple and controlled (to the best of my ability). What does it prove...we'll see. Futaba is aware of a "potential" issue and is working on it. I know that in a very short period of time the temps are gonna be in the 80-90 degree range wich means the inside of the plane could easily reach 150-160 degrees in the heat of the day. Yes we cover them...yada, yada. But the potential risk (read liability) is not worth the chance if there is doubt. By the way, the claims of an issue ARE coming form credible sources. I also know of a helicopter pilot that put his heli in the sun with the canopy on ....10 minutes later the rx went red.

To date my equipment has performed flawlessly. Absolutely perfect. But now comes the Joe Nall fly-in that I am leaving for in 11 days. It should be 80-90 degrees. The planes sit on the flight line in the sun waiting to fly. I believe there is a potential for the plane to heat up enough to "possibly" reach the ambient temps guys have reported earlier in the thread. Will there be a solution or suggestion from Futaba by than? Maybe. If not, do we "go for it" and see what happens? go back to 72mh for the event even though half the event is now 2.4 only? I am going to install a Venom Racing temp meter in the plane on the rx to record the actual temp things heat up to in flight. I truthfully believe they run cooler in the air but honestly to this point don't know.

The sky is not falling and this will get sorted out. It appears that nobody has lost a plane to this "issue" yet and we need to keep it that way. We do need to wait and see what the engineers come up with but vigilance is in order. This is not a "rumor" and is a repeatable event. I know the formula and can reproduce the failure at will. Will it happen in the air..I am honestly not sure. Is that grounds to go fly it...uh..well. If the ambient temp is 70 like it as been here on the east coast prob just fine. 80-90.....I am less inclined to do it until we have more information. I don't think what I did to check the receivers was invalid at all. Why don't you try it yourself Judge and see what happens? Hey, if it doesn't fail than it may prove that this IS more random than it appears. That would be a good thing.

If I misread or misinterpreted your comment than I apologize for the "retort", but it does appear you have a little bit of skepticism regarding this issue and it's kinda like discrediting those that have brought it to light. I may be reading too much into it but it is just the way it is coming across to me. I am all about the orange jersey. but things do come up from time to time with everything.

Ok, enough said..guess we'll have to wait and see how this lays out.

PaulP

[gregorycstitt]

1bwana1, thanks for the helpful insight and I agree. The sooner they find out what is wrong the better off we our. I am one of those individuals who lost signal between my 12FG and 6014 RX. I could careless about brands I have always been with Futaba and have no reason to go anywhere else. But, as of right now I am grounded and that sucks. I haven't flown in over two weeks and normally I fly every Friday and Sunday for approx. 7 hours a day. All three of my planes are 35% and two were built by a professional. My Python was the plane that lost signal and it to was built by a good friend of Quique's. The plane is Professionally built and the install is flawless. This plane is the only plane that has lost signal. But, it is also the only plane that has the receiver sitting on top, under the canopy, exposed to direct sunlite. I have extensively checked the voltage regulators which are all new Duralites. I have also checked the voltage coming out of the receiver and all were good. I am also running all new JR8611A servos. When I first lost signal I pulled the canopy and the first thing I said to my friend was, "feel how hot this receiver is," not really knowing what was going on. Obviously there is a problem somewhere and if Judge doesn't want to believe us or think we are liars whatever. I don't know who he is and honestly I could careless. He gets his **** for free and we don't. I just want a fix and soon. A will be patient for a few weeks and that's about it. I believe I will take your advise and hide the receiver but I will also keep track of the temp with my temp gun. Maybe then I will be able to fly for awhile. I believe in the slogan, "Shut up and fly." Kinda hard to do with my new FASST equipment. Probably should have stuck with 72 mgz 12Z.

[lazun]

I have had many of you PM me and I am glad there are many of you with the same problems. All different setups and installations. Not a coincidence. This is without question the RX's. Also, it is not isolated to only the 6014!!! It has been happening to the 7 and 8 channel ones as well. They have been failing in temps as low as 135 degrees from what some of you have said. We have not tested these ourselves.

You will not be able to keep it cool enough inside the fuselage during the summer. We tried. You will be defiantly taking a risk. For the guy that said he tried to fail the RX's and could not?! I believe he has the only two RX in the country that will not fail under these conditions. Let Futaba know what you are doing correct because we would like to get in the air ASAP!!! And I mean not my day job!!!

[Flyfalcons]

Kind of hypocritical of you to expect everyone to believe your results to be universal, then when someone else posts their results you say they are the exception.

[lazun]

We have done this personally to 33 RX with friends. Plus all the PM's I have gotten from others. Not being hypocritical.

[Simpleton]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	Kind of hypocritical of you to expect everyone to believe your results to be universal, then when someone else posts their results you say they are the exception.

I think the guy who had no problems is a team Futaba pilot. I'm NOT questioning his integrity, so don't go there. Maybe he has some hints or tricks he can share with the other guys.

And I don't see the difference between raising the temp of the RX with a heat gun, the sun, a flame thrower, or anything else.

P.S. My stuff is almost all Futaba, even servos. I'm looking at getting a FASST system, but I'd like to see all this shake out, first.

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by freya1
	Judge, nobody is trying to discredit Futaba, we fly futaba since I can remember and will continue to fly Futaba because I am sure they will find a solution.

I was speaking in generalities, not so much for this particular situation. I think people know what I mean. The Internet is amazing, but it can also turn ugly in a hurry.

[reyn3545]

I sincerely believe there is an issue out there, and for the benefit of everyone who's invested in the is new technology, I hope Futaba jumps on it with a solution quickly....

Having said that... unless there's something something substantive to add to this thread... can we back off of the rhetoric? I want to follow this thread, and like the rest of you, I want to hear about the solution as soon as its annonced.... but this getting to be a little much... even for a sarchastic old guy like me.

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by 1bwana1
	I don't think anyone is calling people who are reporting this problem liars. OK, maybe Judge is, but they pay him well in free "T" shirts to call you names. He must have a very large collection by now. Don't freak Malvey, I'm just kidding!

WOW, where'd that come from? At no time have I even hinted that these reports are not real. My point has been that Futaba needs time to determine if they can locate the source of the problem and determine a fix. People were getting a little impatient and my posts were to that point. I have no doubt people are seeing this. And I have no doubt that Futaba is working hard to resolve it.

	Quote:
	I hope people continue to experiment, and contribute their findings to this forum.

As do I, but in the end what will matter is what Futaba figures out.

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Leardriver
	The way you make it sound it was completely recklace and basically has no merit.

Not my point at all. My point was that there have been several "tests" completed and reported and I cannot say that one is better than another. And again, the real test will be whatever Futaba does and how they decide to handle the situation.