Problems!! 14MZ 2.4 R6014FS

[lazun]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Julez
	Well, I think it all boils down to RTFM.

We've had the DP149 PCM RX's and were never an issue. As it should be. When the summer in the USA is in full swing in the upper 90's Futaba is going to have a hard time explaining it to the consumer or courts if something were to happen.

The product should not be this finicky to operate and the tolerances seem way to low. The liability is high. A product like a rx has to have the highest standards.

An example we see is cars. In sun light a white car in AZ 92 degree temps shot to 124 degrees. The computers in the car were at 141 degrees. The interior 137 degrees. It is not even 120 yet in AZ.

So it is safe to assume that even with your best setup you can go over the temps. Extreme temps for a model airplane; a court can argue perfectly that at ambient 100 degrees, with the airplane at maybe 150 degrees. This is not extreme at all. After all the interior of your car in 100 degrees is up to 178!!!! So it is about reason. And quite frankly something the manufacturer should be reasonably considering since flying is a summer activity.

[Jurgen Heilig]

Unfortunately there is no definition of extreme.

Other RC manufacturers clearly specify a temperature range of -15° to 55°, i.e. anything above could be called extreme.

If you don't like the Futaba upper temperature limitation, try to find another brand with a higher limit. Good luck!

Jürgen

[lazun]

I'm just looking at it from a reasonable stand point. As a court may do.

[Kiwi]

Lazun,

I seriously believe there is blood on the floor in the FASST camp already. But you know its not just RC that suffers from this type of over sight or lack of concern.

Often its ignorance of the actual condidtions the device is required to operate in, sometimes its just a plain and simple human error, and we are all human. These's an old saying, if you dont make mistakes your not doing anything.

But all of us sticking the knife into an already open wound wont fix this a minute quicker mate. Sure it needs to be divulged and discussed but likely 90% of users will never see temps like your talking about and they will never see the problems.

I dont know how anyone can address that even with an advisory but I would go as far as to say that if your flying in an environment with an ambient in the 70's or 80's and your Rx is not exposed to bright open sunlight your right to fly. If your a little concerned make sure you have airflow through the fuselage as all the reported events so far appear to be with the plane static or taxiing with little or no cooling effect; if required.

I have 2.4 on some small electrics, I wont stop flying them as I know inside my models are not that hot.

But you desert huckers have a problem and you have to be a little bit patient at the very least to allow Futaba to come up with a once and for all final solution. There is no patch for this if I read it right. If the chip cant take the heat you cant change that so please give them a little amount of time to find the solution.

Once again I applaud our ability to discuss and share this knowledge, its bloody invaluable to be precise. But talking of legal action, courts etc reminds me of the many cars I see following ambulances when I visit the USA. Those guys have no interest in the victim, but they are merciless on the luckless guy who made a simple human error.

Here is hoping Futaba can give us some heads up in the coming days and find a solution that suits.

[emessys]

There is potentially a tremendous liability issue which could reverberate throughout the entire hobby, including not only affecting Futaba, but individuals, clubs, meets etc.

We better hope that this gets addressed really quickly (I was going to say Fast, but that would be in poor taste).

We all better hope there is a simple fix.

Ira

[emessys]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Mode1Mike
	I did not buy this stuff to experiment I paid full price for what Futaba is advertising PLEASE POST WHERE YOU FIND THAT FASST IS EXPERIMENTAL Please go to there web site and read for yourself! http://2.4gigahertz.com/ The Futaba 2.4GHz Story In our decades-long history, Futaba has brought many "firsts" to radio-control: Pulse-Code Modulation (PCM)...1024 and 2048 resolution...systems with 9 and 14 channels...transmitters with ultra-reliable dual internal processors. Now Futaba is the first of the traditional radio manufacturers to bring the advantages of 2.4GHz spread spectrum technology to modelers – and the first to introduce that technology in a full-range aircraft system. For getting the full benefits of 2.4GHz technology, you'll find that Futaba's experience makes all the difference. Ask competitors such as driver Taylor James, who has already racked up multiple wins with Futaba's 3PK 2.4GHz! Or award winning pilot Jason Shulman, who says "the fast response and glitch-free performance is unbelievable!" Futaba gets it right the first time. Futaba takes great pride in making sure that every new product performs flawlessly before it's offered to our customers. Others hesitate to invest so much effort in testing. Some may even consider their "first run" products a step in the process of working out bugs, using feedback from the earliest buyers. Futaba is different. When you choose a Futaba 2.4GHz FASST radio system or module/receiver set, you've selected a fully tested, well-engineered, totally reliable product – one that's absolutely ready to give demanding R/C hobbyists the performance they expect. Our hands-on experience with 2.4GHz technology stretches back 15 years, long before anyone considered its value in hobby applications. That's when engineers in Futaba's industrial R/C division – designers of radio-control tools for construction, civil engineering, and similar uses – began employing and perfecting their own 2.4GHz equipment. Those same engineers were brought in to share their knowledge as soon as we were comfortable that 2.4GHz technology had perfected for the unique demands of R/C hobby applications. No other radio manufacturer had such an instant supply of expertise.

Mike,

That is what is called "Advertising".

[Kiwi]

I fully understand the liability issue but if that were to be 100% correct then none of the other three 2.4Ghz systems would be off the ground either.

All of them have had or still have what we as modelers determine as very seriously issues that could eventuate in a serious accident or injury possibly including death. That's not a pretty scenario but the facts are that all RC equiped vehicles are a potential danger.

Heck I have see guys flying trainers that I would class as being way more lethal than this problem but no one takes them off the market, threatens legal action etc etc etc.

The sky is not falling, there's a problem for sure and that has been acknowledged on here, in this thread by FUTABA themselves. Often its not the problem that is the issue, its way it is resolved and that takes time regardless of how impatient we are.

[Mode1Mike]

I thought the engineers had this figured out!

Those same engineers were brought in to share their knowledge as soon as we were comfortable that 2.4GHz technology had perfected for the unique demands of R/C hobby applications. No other radio manufacturer had such an instant supply of expertise.

If some of you want to beta test fine with me I will keep my 9 zap and 72 mhz and enjoy my summer!

As for 2.4 have fun testing for the factorys and when you figure it out I will be happy to switch over to 2.4

[TheTank]

I believe is roughly 130 degrees that will cause someone to immediately draw their finger/hand/foot back due to around that temp, causes immediate pain to a large majority of people. Obviously, some have higher pain thresholds than others. I have had planes sitting out in the sun all day before both up here in the NE and as far south as S.C. I cant ever remember the interiors ever getting that warm, even after a flight and where the cannisters were heating the fuse after shut down. I remember owning a comp arf that got very hot inside especially on shut down, but that was without a pipe tunnel. That said, this thread has me interested. Im going to see if I can located a temp probe to use down at the Joe nall this year. I would love to see what temps accumlate in direct sunlight down there in the south, as well as what temps occur in a shady are of the fuse. I just can't see interior fuse temps getting that hot. That said, direct sunlight on an RX or something black/dark in color, I could see that heating up. I utilize tie-wraps to hold gear down in alot of airplanes, and they are usually colored ones. After a season of flying and being exposed, they are often mis-colored and substantially weaker at the end of the season. Interesting topic.

[Mode1Mike]

	Quote: Originally Posted by emessys
	Mike, That is what is called "Advertising".

Call it what you want

[grayuk]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Kiwi
	Grayuk, Thats probably one of the most sensible posts I have seen here for a while and I'm pleased as a person with an interest in the site to see new guys coming over to join in with facts, opinions or just to have a browse. It matters not as this is not a closed club with invited guests only. For what its worth I done some slow cooking yesterday with one of the very first 7 channel fasst receivers and like most every one else that has tried it, it failed. But it failed really easily and even with the red light on you could hold it against your cheek and it was NOT HOT to touch. Warm of course but certainly it was at a temperature easily achievable if you left it in the sun and even more so inside a glass house cockpit on a large scale plane. I took the same test and cooked a SPEKTUM AR7000 unit. I got to 185 F degrees which I consider unobtainable in the sun or even in a glass house cockpit and it performed exactly as it did at 70 F. I see where someone got one to fail at 200 plus so that shows there is a limit but thats above the boiling point of water and there will be lots of other issues before your plane ever gets that hot inside. What I am sure of is Mr Futaba is frantically having his weekend ruined as they look for a solid solution.

Thanks Kiwi.

Paul

[Kiwi]

Can one of you guys in the hot Arizona sun make a small case for the Rx out of polystyrene, like the stuff you cut wing cores from. Make it a neat fit and redo your tests in the sun etc. I doubt that the receiver can produce enough heat to shut down internally. if you make a ice chest thingy for it can we see if that gives us a temporary fix until FASST find what is going on.