Problems!! 14MZ 2.4 R6014FS

[Jurgen Heilig]

	Quote: Originally Posted by grayuk
	Can you give us an idea of what it says?

2.4 GHz R/C Systems

R/C Systems using 2.4GHz have been subject of discussions by national and international communications authorities. Meanwhile other users of the 2.4 GHz band became aware of the use of R/C systems with a radiating power of 100 mW EIRP (Subclass 22). Especially the distributors of RLAN equipment are not amused about that.

At the CEPT/ETSI meeting from 13.- 14 September 2007 in Sophia Antipolis, a representative of CISCO launched a request, that 100mW EIRP (Subclass 22) should be reserved exclusively for WLAN, Bluetooth etc. As an example of the "abuse" of Subclass 22 radio control systems for model airplanes was used. The quite powerful lobby of RLAN users would like to ban those applications and judging by previous meetings, the representative of CISCO at ETSI is known to be a very strong supporter of this goal.

When the Model Flying Section of the German Aero Club got informed by this "attack" on R/C applications on 2.4 GHz, a request for clarification was launched to the German Communications Authority. They confirmed in writing, that their attitude towards R/C systems in accordance with EN 300.328 (100 mW max. EIRP) has not changed and that the usage remains legal.

From 31st March to 1st of April, the regular TCAM meeting took place in Luxembourg. The TCAM is the EU expert group which deals with conformity issues according to the R&TTE directive.

Prior to this meeting information became available, that 2.4 GHz R/C applications would be a topic there. In order to represent our interests, an "R/C Consortium" was formed, consisting of the following members: ACT, DAeC, DMFV, Graupner, JSB, Multiplex, RC-Network, Robbe, Simprop and Weatronic.

[grayuk]

Thanks for the translation.
Am i reading this right, is this just a German issue or could it be Europe wide?

Thanks

Paul

[Prof. Dr. YoMan]

Europe. Not only germany. Its possible that 2,4GHz for RC gets banned in the EU.

[Jurgen Heilig]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Prof. Dr. YoMan
	Europe. Not only germany. Its possible that 2,4GHz for RC gets banned in the EU.

Considering the thousands of 2.4GHz systems already sold, I think it would be quite difficult to control a ban and most likely the existing ones could be used further.

Jürgen

[diamondave5]

well i just joined this site, i did have the exact same problem, i started a post on rcunivrs and was given this link, i was at the field last weekend with my 88" yak, put it together and flew once in the morning, then the field was closed for weed pulling and such(getting ready for shootout already,hehe), my plane sat in the sun for 3 hours or so, i didnt cover it because in my mind it wasnt that hot out, like mid 80's or so, and i know i have flown with my pcm stuff where sweat was driping in my eyes and my hands were slippery on the radio from sweat, and never had any problems, so anyway the field opened back up around 11:30 or so, fired it up, i do a rutine every flight, the 1st one of the day inculdes a range check, anyway i bring the rpms up slow, then full, then i goose it a few times to make sure its running and transitioning good, i lost signal when "goosing" it, i was literally seconds away from taxying out, i turned reciever off, it came back, refired lost again, did that 3 times before packing up, got home and took it out of the plane, would not fail with a few servos hooked up to it, tried for 15-20 minutes, i put my pcm back in and went out sunday which was even hotter out, had no problems and flew all day, so i believe there is a definet issue and needs to have a solution quickly, i wouldnt be able to fly here(tucson) anytime after 9 or 10 now, and its only going to get warmer for the rest of the season, even if it was proved to be the reciever and futaba would reemmberse for the plane, i dont want to start all over or see a plane go down like that, it will happen around here, i just think its a question of when, i dont want to see it happen and i have been letting everybody i know about the problem, i am keeping a close eye on all this, meanwhile my $500 investment(8 channel module, 2-617's, and 1-8 channel) to "upgrade" my planes is nothing more than a door stop at this point, until fall amd cooler temps i guess, it was a new version of the 617 recievers that i was using, so this issue seems to span several different versions of the 2.4 fasst stuff, i plan to stick with my futaba 9c and have no immediate desire to change brands just to get 2.4 stuff, but am kind of dissapointed and for sure leary, makes me wonder what other unkowns may be out there

[Jurgen Heilig]

	Quote: Originally Posted by diamondave5
	... i have flown with my pcm stuff where sweat was driping in my eyes and my hands were slippery on the radio from sweat, and never had any problems. ...

I think you were just lucky. Try to find an R/C equipment manufacturer who will give you an operational temperature range over 60°C. Good luck!

Even servos have a range from -20°C to +60C.

If you exceed the specs, you are responsible in case of a crash.

Jürgen

[prizzy]

Just an FYI. I was at a competition this weekend. The outside temperature was near 84F. I was thinking that the inside of a plane wouldn't get to 160, but I was wrong. I checked the temperature of my powerbox (which was exposed to the sun through the canopy) and it was 137F. That was pretty hot. I hope a solution comes up soon.

[Jurgen Heilig]

	Quote: Originally Posted by prizzy
	... I hope a solution comes up soon.

Guys, be realistic.

No R/C equipment manufacturer will give you a waiver that their stuff will work above 60°C.

It is up to you to ensure that your equipment does not exceed those limits.

Jürgen

[777drvr]

Hi Guys,

Having blown the wad on 16 various FASST RX's , I'm more than a little interested in this thread ! So far all my experiences have been positive . I was unaffected by the 6014 low voltage issue and so far the temp issue . I'm operating turbines , a 50cc gasser and various electrics without a problem .

Just a few thoughts . It's very possible that these new electronics are more sensitive to temperature extremes than the previous generation but the temps that some people have posted that lead to failures are pretty darn high !

One common thread is that the sun seems to be beating on the components . Maybe a little light coloured "dog house " should be put over the components if they will be exposed to the sun or a cockpit floor should be added .

I would love to know what the ambient temperatures have been inside the failure aircraft ?

Marc

[1bwana1]

Jurgen,
You keep saying that no equipment should be expected to run at those temperatures. However, these people, and their equipment have been flying at the same fields, and in the same environment for many years. The only receivers that are experiencing this failure are the new Futaba 2.4 receivers. Even the 72 Futaba systems seem to handle the environment just fine. There is a new limit with the Futaba 2.4 system that people (mostly Futaba fans) are running into. This needs to be understood by those planning on using this gear.

[Simpleton]

	Quote: Originally Posted by 1bwana1
	There is a new limit with the Futaba 2.4 system that people (mostly Futaba fans) are running into. This needs to be understood by those planning on using this gear.

Well, Futaba users. Not sure how you'd notice the problem with a Futaba RX if you weren't running one, and not sure that just running the gear makes you a "fan".

[Mithrandir]

It would be interesting if some one actually Instrumented their plane and had actual temps inside...
I can't imagine batteries would like a 130 plus degree environment either....