Problems!! 14MZ 2.4 R6014FS

[RTK]

In a week it is supposed to be in the 100's where I live. I have a friend that flies just about every day with a Futaba 2.4 smack dab in the middle of the canopy, I will know in a week Oh, the hottest it's been here has been in mid 80's, he has had no problems to date.

[Fish07]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Judge
	It is still kind of curious to me that nobody really talked about this until 2 weeks ago when Yuri's issue was posted. Suddenly there are a host of "Me too" posts. I am NOT saying this is not happening, but it is sort of odd that nobody mentioned it sooner. Perhaps we just had to wait for it to get hotter. It is also kind of odd (fortunate?) that the failures seem to happen on the ground. Probably just some sort of coincidence I suppose. It makes me wonder if perhaps one batch of RXs got made with some heat sensitive component. One with a lower temperature threshold. Something seems to have changed. And other than Yuri, has anyone sent in a RX that suffered this fault? It will be very interesting to hear what Futaba determines. I hope it is soon too, with summer heat on the way and people freaked out about using their 6014 RXs time is critical. I think Jurgen's point is that all electronic components have a temperature range that they are spec'd for. We usually don't pay any attention to it, but maybe now we need to. As far as why this appears to be mostly in large aerobatic planes I think that may be because that is where most people are going to use a 14 channel RX. A very curious situation that is just another example of how weird the wonderful world of electronics can be!! As far as what we can learn, I think that most everything now is in the hands of the Futaba engineers. They are the only ones who can really give us a definitive answer. All I know is that I would hate to be the guy who designed this thing, because you know he's got a lot of people staring him down right now!!

Can you hear me now !!!!you see all this problem with futaba sounds suspicious.

[plane]

I remember reading that some of the failures were preceded by a 'click'. Could it be an internal temperature sensor/switch activating? Possibly something as simple as a bad batch of sensors? Let's say for arguments sake that that is the case. It would take Futaba a fair amount of time to verify said bad batch and then set up a way to rectify the problem of replacing or repairing said receivers.

That said the one thing I have never understood is why RC manufactures don't GROUND their equipment to prevent a catastrophic accident. You name the brand and they've all had problems at one time or another be it 2.4ghz or 72mhz, but I've never heard of a bulletin grounding their equipment in the name of safety.

Rich

[reyn3545]

Have you ever taken an out of control catastrophic crash and been able to trace it back to a difinitive component failure? I know what I would suspect of one of my 6014's ever took a dirt nap, but I'd have a heck of a time proving it!

Most electronics manufacturers categorize their engineering changes (EC's) into 3 categories..

GREEN is a simple component replacement, usually where a component within a product is replaced, but not because original was faulty

YELLOW is a "fix on failure" update, where the fix is only applied when a unit comes in for service.. this updated component would generally fix a minor issue with the original

RED would indicate that a proactive field replacement is in order.

In almost 20 years in the mobile computing business, and "issues" with virtually every new unit that my employers have produced, the only RED issues I've seen were Lithium Polymer battery recalls from our competitors notebooks, when they were suspected of having potential "rapid expansion" (explosion) issues.

If we cured every problem before we shipped a product to market, we'd never ship one. That's just the nature of the electronics business today. Also, nobody typically acknowledges that there's a problem until a remedy is adopted. The longer we wait on our friends at Futaba to answer, the more likely there will actually be a "fix" ... otherwise they'd just do what I mentioned earlier.... tell us to keep it within a certain temperature limit, at our own risk. I've got my fingers crossed that by now they've identified the failing component (that doesn't take long) and are busy scowering the market for a more heat tolerant replacement.

[Flyfalcons]

Add to that not only the problems encountered in the field with new RC technology such as Lipos, new engines, etc, but also in the "real world" such as auto mfg recalls, full scale airplane ADs from Cessna to Airbus, etc. Field reports are an unfortunate reality in this world and even more so with emerging technology. Personally I think the fruity drink umbrella fix is brilliant and I'll be taking royalties if Futaba goes that route.

[reyn3545]

I'll be more than happy to do my duty and drink more than my share of those fruity drinks if it will help the availability of the umbrellas!

[Flyfalcons]

We could go in the umbrella supply business together. We just need lots of foamies to keep us entertained.

[rcjunckie]

I've been told that the people at Futaba are now aware of this problem and that proper research takes time. Forgive me for being impatient, but what miff's me is the fact that they've got my dollars now...I've got a system that is unreliable. One that is causing catasrophic damage to the airplanes of others and almost got mine, and all I can do is wait for who knows how long before they break their silence. I believe I waited long enough for them to get the product developed and it would seem to me that they had sufficient time to build a reliable system that would work without failing right out of the box. It sure would be reassuring if Futaba made some kind of official statement by now just to let us know that they are working on a solution for the problem.

I've spent quite a bit of my hard earned cash on this new Futaba technology as I have shelled out the money to equip 4 of my planes with these receivers (R6014FS) and my transmitter (12Z) for this 2.4mhsz system and cannot fly a single one safely until Futaba decides to get off its duff, admit that there is a terrible problem with their receivers, and come up with a workable solution. That my friend is pure frustration to the consumer at its best directly from the corporate level. If it would help to speed things up on their end, I'd be happy to send their engineers a heat gun at my expense to prove that the problem is temperature related and get them working on a solution.

I'm not an engineer myslef, but it didn't take me a week to find out that there was a concern with the receivers, and that it is temperature related. Since my first experience with failure of the receiver last Sunday (5-4-08), I decided to run tests at my home today using this 2.4mhz system with the R6014FS receivers that I have with ordinary farenheit thermometers under the canopy areas. The outside ambient temperatures were from 85-90 degress duing the tests that I made. I waited until the hottest part of the day (3PM-5PM) to perform the tests in direct sunlight with the engine running. I have found that the receivers will fail at 135+ degrees consistantly. I have never had a failure using the PCM 2048 receivers (R5014DPS, R5114DPS) that I previously used for my planes at any temperature. They were also exposed to direct sunlight in the canopy areas. Why is this receiver having so much trouble? Houston, we've got a real problem here, and continued silence from Futaba isn't reassuring me that Futaba is working dilligently on a fix.

[Judge]

Well, as you have said, it's pretty easy to discover that there is a problem. However, I suspect that there is a bit more to it to find out what is failing, why it is failing, how it is failing, and what to do about it. But I'm not an engineer either, so maybe it really is a simple and easy some seem to think it is. My best guess is that Futaba has not said anything yet because they have not got it figured out yet. They're not as smart as we are so we'll have to be a little more patient and let them stumble through this.

Of course, I could be wrong!!

[japan3d]

Remember that there has been a long holiday period here, where most companies shut down for 7-14 days.

[Woketman]

If they were to come on one of these forums and actually ADMIT that there is an issue, that would go a LONG way towards making folks feel that they are indeed "doing something"!

The silence we hear now is deafening.

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Woketman
	If they were to come on one of these forums and actually ADMIT that there is an issue, that would go a LONG way towards making folks feel that they are indeed "doing something"! The silence we hear now is deafening.

Well, BAX has come on the forums and admitted that they are aware of the issue. What more do you want?? And Futaba themselves NEVER come on any forums, the only official Futaba related presence on the web is Hobbico/Great Planes, that being Bax and Krysta.

The silence you hear is what happens when a problem is actually studied and a cause determined before they simply start typing away on their keyboard. Until they actually have something to say they are likely not to say anything, no matter how impatient people get.