Problems!! 14MZ 2.4 R6014FS

[DR10044]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig
	Hopefully there won't be a problem. Event Organizers and pilots should be aware by now about potential temperature issues. Some blankets and/or sun umbrellas should provide enough protection. Jürgen

I was hoping it would hit the high 80's this year with full sun, but it does not look like that is going to happen. If it does, and there are no issues, with pilots taking the normal steps we all do that Jurgen referenced above. I think we would all feel a lot better about the reported heat problems. And, if there are issues, it would drive home the problem and possibly bring it to a conclusion, one way or the other, just like QQ's crash helped move the brown out problem recognition and solution forward last year.

[Cherokee Jim]

Hello All,

Most of our radios are made using Consumer Grade electronic components which means the max working range is -40C (-40F) to +85C (185F). The actual product operating temperature range would be much less than this for reliability . Just because a component spec sheet says its upper temp limit is 85C does not mean you will be able to realistically use it at that temp - take a resistor for example, it can be rated at 85C but if you look at the derating curve of its allowed power dissipation verses temperature you may see that at 85c is it is rated for Zero power dissipation - Not very useful.

Most of these temperature problems will go away if one ensures there is proper ventilation , moving air around the servo and receiver. The same is true of regulators, you can have as big a heat sink as you want but you have to provide a way to move the heat out, air flow!

For warm/Hot weather flying:

1. Provide a path for moving cooling air around your electronics.

2. Do not place your electronics where they would be in direct sun light.

3. If you are flying a Turbine place thermo insulation between heat source and electronics.

4. If you live in a hot place learn to like light colored aircraft.

5. try to create some kind of sun shade for your air craft while they are sitting on the ground.

6. If you are flying electrics the flow of cooling air is even more important.

7. If anyone tells you these precautions are not important - Don't Listen to Them!

Happy Flying,
Cherokee Jim

[Judge]

One other thought. It's a bit of a PITA, but what about taking the hatch cover/canopy off between flights to let the inside vent to atmosphere? This way the solar oven has no chance to get going. And you can cover the insides with a towel too.

Just a thought.

[zzw26n]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Judge
	One other thought. It's a bit of a PITA, but what about taking the hatch cover/canopy off between flights to let the inside vent to atmosphere? This way the solar oven has no chance to get going. And you can cover the insides with a towel too. Just a thought.

C'mon Judge, I expect more out you then the above suggestion. No one wants to remove and replace their Hatch-Canopy five times a day. I'll Fly Futaba 72mhz this year, but .... several Members at my Club have switched to the dark-side and I can't blame them.

[crhammond]

I agree with all the suggestions here as being good advice and normal operating procedure. I can't say I have ever exactly followed it because it is just not that hot where I live except for maybe 1 or 2 weeks a year. (and we don't fly because we are too busy complaining we are melting and about to die from heat as we have -20c for a good part of the year HA HA.)

However, the fact remains that this was not a problem with previous equipment and is not a problem (at least none has been reported) with other brands.

I am happily flying my 6014/608/617's now and keeping the canopy covered up when it is sunny outside. Following "normal procedures" should do it for me. None of my planes have canopy floors - but I plan to add them this weekend. They are all ARF's (high-end but ARF's) and in planes I have built I always cut out the floors to save some weight. It was just never an issue before. I guess if I flew somewhere hot all the time I would already have been told by more experienced flyers to cover the floor.

There is also a conflict because having a floor makes it hard to get the Rx and antennas up into the canopy for good signal reception. I know most people don't have an issue with the Rx's burried inside the plane - but best practices for all 2.4 systems has been to get the antennas up high in the fuse away from fuel tank/engine/pipes etc.

I just think Futaba should at least post an advisory saying what has already been stated above as common sense. Acknowledge that there is a potential for heat issues and that you need to keep the Rx's out of the sun, canopy covered up, good ventalation etc. A fix would be even better but at the very least they should have officially acknowleded that there is a potential issue by now and alerted people. Just my 2c. Not everyone is on the web - they should at least let the hobby shops know so they can pass the word. I expected more from them after having 3 weeks to at least post a notice. They were pretty fast on the 2.7v item.

I used to equate Futaba quality with Toyota quality. If you are wondering about Toyota service just search the web for what they are doing for 1995 - 2000 Tundras with rust issues. Now THAT is service.

[DR10044]

As a 25+ year Futaba customer, I have the reasonable expectation that each like product that I buy has the same or better operational parameters of the previous product it is replacing. That is my view and expectation as a customer. I would say that is Futaba's or any manufacturer's intent as well. If this product is not performing as good or better than the previous like product, I can't believe they will not correct the situation. In fact, being this is their flag ship product, it will be suicide not to do so. I believe once they figure out what the problem is, they will correct it. If is the only logical action they can take.
Until then, I will take all the normal steps to keep the heat down inside my planes and some not so normal ones until the problem is corrected. That is the only logical thing to do right now.

[Flyfalcons]

I don't see this as much different than the Spektrum brown out issue.

New Technology - Unintended Issues - Eventual Fix

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by zzw26n
	C'mon Judge, I expect more out you then the above suggestion. No one wants to remove and replace their Hatch-Canopy five times a day. I'll Fly Futaba 72mhz this year, but .... several Members at my Club have switched to the dark-side and I can't blame them.

Like I said, it is a PITA, but it would help I am certain. Not as good as an engineered fix, but in the interim it would be very effective.

And I still say that if it's that hot out I am in the AC for sure!!!

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	I don't see this as much different than the Spektrum brown out issue. New Technology - Unintended Issues - Eventual Fix

I agree completely.

Take it a step farther. JR/Spektrum went from single RXs to the current multiple satellite receiver arrangement in response to real world results. The initial design did not work as well as they had intended, so they changed it based on what the end user was doing. This is the way it usually works.

[Jurgen Heilig]

I did my temperature increase tests at 5V. As nobody repeated them with other voltages, I run some more tests with 6V:

R6014FS - Room temp. 25°C

After 5 minutes 30.7°C, after 15 minutes 32.5°C, after 30 minutes 34.4°C

R617FS - Room temp. 25°C

After 5 minutes 34°C, after 15 minutes 38.4°C at the bottom of the case.

The higher the supply voltage, the higher the temperature differenz between rx and ambient temperature. It does not seem to be linear.

Jürgen

[rcdart]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Judge
	One other thought. It's a bit of a PITA, but what about taking the hatch cover/canopy off between flights to let the inside vent to atmosphere? This way the solar oven has no chance to get going. And you can cover the insides with a towel too. Just a thought.

Not only does it cool the inside of your plane, but gives the opportunity to have a good look inside for other developing problems, something that should be done anyway.

[Mithrandir]

	Quote: Originally Posted by zzw26n
	C'mon Judge, I expect more out you then the above suggestion. No one wants to remove and replace their Hatch-Canopy five times a day. I'll Fly Futaba 72mhz this year, but .... several Members at my Club have switched to the dark-side and I can't blame them.

There is some merit to this as it would allow opportunities to inspect between flights...

How many people have opened their plane to learn a wing bolt came out or one aileron servo unplugged?