9100 switch issues

[Scott Gerber]

The concept of the "fail safe" type switch is a bit tricky because it's reverse thinking. It take a switch to be switched on to turn off the receiver. Any mechanical switch will work as long as you build it correctly. All that is being done is taking the signal wire (orange) to ground (brown) to turn off the current flow from the battery to the servos. It's the same concept as a bind plug. If you start with a servo extension that plugs into the receiver, remove the red wire completely from the extension leaving only the orange and brown, those two wires can be used in any on-off slide switch or mounted to a Ernst style charging jack to the side of the fuse. The pin style switches wont work because they are fail safe type switches already designed to pass battery current. Using a bind plug and charging jack set up as a pin style switch would be about as close to that as you could get in my opinion.


Scott

[pupmeister]

The pin and flag style switches from fromeco (that you get with a fromeco reg) and smart fly work in a similar fashion as you described for a mechanical switch, ie when you remove the pin they "switch off" (cut current) They definetaly do not pass battery current through them after the pin is removed (the pin actually makes the contact in the switch when insterted).

If you want to use a pin and flag switch, the smart fly pin and flag switch is already correctly wired and can be used in the AR9100 without any modifications. If you want to use a fromeco pin and flag switch I think you have to change the positive and signal pins around. I am using a fromeco pin and flag switch switch but I soldered on a new lead because I wanted a longer lead and I did not want to use a servo extension so I can not rember the actual pin layout.

Cheers
Stephen

Cheers
Stephen

[Scott Gerber]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pupmeister
	The pin and flag style switches from fromeco (that you get with a fromeco reg) and smart fly work in a similar fashion as you described for a mechanical switch, ie when you remove the pin they "switch off" (cut current) They definetaly do not pass battery current through them after the pin is removed (the pin actually makes the contact in the switch when insterted). If you want to use a pin and flag switch, the smart fly pin and flag switch is already correctly wired and can be used in the AR9100 without any modifications. If you want to use a fromeco pin and flag switch I think you have to change the positive and signal pins around. I am using a fromeco pin and flag switch switch but I soldered on a new lead because I wanted a longer lead and I did not want to use a servo extension so I can not rember the actual pin layout. Cheers Stephen Cheers Stephen

I have to take exception to your first paragraph. The pin flag style switch conducts current from the battery to the servos/receiver when the pin flag is "REMOVED" as in when you are flying. When the pin flag is installed it causes the connection to the battery to be interrupted. It all works on the FET theory where it takes a ground to the gate of the FET to shut it off . This is what happens when the pin is inserted or in the issue of the AR9100 when the switch is turned on, the FET is electronically turned off from conducting battery current to the rest of the system. When the ground is removed from the FET's gate, the device conducts fully as if it where a mechanical switch in the on position.

http://www.fromeco.org/Support/Artic...f-4574be3aff60


Scott

[pupmeister]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Gerber
	I have to take exception to your first paragraph. The pin flag style switch conducts current from the battery to the servos/receiver when the pin flag is "REMOVED" as in when you are flying. When the pin flag is installed it causes the connection to the battery to be interrupted. It all works on the FET theory where it takes a ground to the gate of the FET to shut it off . This is what happens when the pin is inserted or in the issue of the AR9100 when the switch is turned on, the FET is electronically turned off from conducting battery current to the rest of the system. When the ground is removed from the FET's gate, the device conducts fully as if it where a mechanical switch in the on position. http://www.fromeco.org/Support/Artic...f-4574be3aff60 Scott

Sorry I miss understood what you were saying, I thought you were saying that the pin & flag switch works by conducting the current through it when the pin is removed and thus would not be usable as a switch for a AR9100. I was trying to say what you have just said, but unfortunately I just do not have the background electronic fundamentals to explain like you did.

Cheers
Stephen

[Scott Gerber]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pupmeister
	Sorry I miss understood what you were saying, I thought you were saying that the pin & flag switch works by conducting the current through it when the pin is removed and thus would not be usable as a switch for a AR9100. I was trying to say what you have just said, but unfortunately I just do not have the background electronic fundamentals to explain like you did. Cheers Stephen

No problem Stephen, just wanted to make sure we where on the same page so others won't be getting conflicting info...


Scott

[bodywerks]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Show871
	Thanks guys for the info. One more thing, what alternative switches could I run because of the failsafe on stuff. Would the smartfly pin switch work? I like the idea of the bind plug......is there a clean way to mount it of the exterior of the fuse? 871

No matter what switch you use in the switch port, you will have a fail 'on'. I am using a smart-fly pin/flag switch, but will use the bind plug option on future installs. I already do it for the bind plug itself, and all I do is plug a standard extension into the receiver port and cut a hole in the side of the fuse to snuggly fit the female end of the extension into it. I make it so it is flush with the fuselage side and tack it in place with some thick CA and that's it.

[bodywerks]

	Quote:
	The pin style switches wont work because they are fail safe type switches already designed to pass battery current.

The pin style switches do work, and flawlessly. They, in themselves are not a failsafe switch (failsafe switching happens inside the regulator or receiver that they are plugged into.
Installing the pin into the switch closes a circuit within the receiver/regulator that causes the internal receiver/regulator switching mechanism(FET) to separate power from the batteries to the servos/receiver. Removing the pin opens the circuit and causes the receiver to turn on.

[Scott Gerber]

	Quote: Originally Posted by bodywerks
	They, in themselves are not a failsafe switch (failsafe switching happens inside the regulator or receiver that they are plugged into.

I would agree with that as long as you are using an external regulator in series with the battery and fail safe switch like from fromeco, however in the spirit of the original question, using an external fail safe system would negate the internal fail safe design in the AR9100. I still disagree that one can use a pin flag style switch of any design IN PLACE of the soft switch design that come with the AR9100, the electronics in the pin flag switch is not compatible with what the AR9100 needs to see at the soft switch port...


Scott

[Show871]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Gerber
	I would agree with that as long as you are using an external regulator in series with the battery and fail safe switch like from fromeco, however in the spirit of the original question, using an external fail safe system would negate the internal fail safe design in the AR9100. I still disagree that one can use a pin flag style switch of any design IN PLACE of the soft switch design that come with the AR9100, the electronics in the pin flag switch is not compatible with what the AR9100 needs to see at the soft switch port... Scott

Confused again. ummmmmm I would just run the smart fly pin switch. This is designed for the failsafe on system of the PE they sell. Would'nt that work? 871

[Scott Gerber]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Show871
	Confused again. ummmmmm I would just run the smart fly pin switch. This is designed for the failsafe on system of the PE they sell. Would'nt that work? 871

Yes you are correct, that would work fine. My statements apply only to the AR9100...

Scott

[Show871]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Gerber
	Yes you are correct, that would work fine. My statements apply only to the AR9100... Scott

No, I mean they work with the f/s for the pe, which is the same sort of failsafe on s/u. I do want to run that switch alone in direct replacement of the soft switch.

[bodywerks]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Gerber
	I would agree with that as long as you are using an external regulator in series with the battery and fail safe switch like from fromeco, however in the spirit of the original question, using an external fail safe system would negate the internal fail safe design in the AR9100. I still disagree that one can use a pin flag style switch of any design IN PLACE of the soft switch design that come with the AR9100, the electronics in the pin flag switch is not compatible with what the AR9100 needs to see at the soft switch port... Scott

We must be talking about two different switches, because there are NO ELECTRONICS WHATSOEVER in the Smart-fly OR Fromeco (provided you orient the wires properly on the fromeco unit) pin/flag switches. It's just a barrel with two metal contacts inside that are not completing a circuit when the pin is removed(the open circuit is what causes the switching mechanism in the receiver to power up the receiver). The pin is made of metal for a reason - to complete a circuit. When it is installed, the circuit is complete, which is what is required to command the internal switch in the receiver to remove power from the receiver.
The other reason I know 100%, absolutely, positively, for sure that these pin/flag switches work with the AR9100 is because I am using one for the AR9100 in my 42% Extra. You can't see the switch in this pic, but you can see the red, black and white lead that is plugged into the switch port and then the same lead coiled up in the upper righthand side of the pic. It goes right to the Smartfly pin/flag switch mounted on the side of the fuse.