Joe Nall and Mufflers??

[flying232]

you mention warbirds in the same sentence as scale. let's see here, How scale does this sound, Hey dady look at that p-51 and listen at that it sounds like it's pissing in the wind that is soooo cool. Ya son they have always been politicaly correct and been quiet. soory guys , I fly aerobatic aircraft not scale but to be a scale aircraft should it really sound like a hisssssss
mike

[TheTank]

	Quote: Originally Posted by invert0914
	How many DB'S does a 150 cc motor produce with Standard mufflers? And there are way to many scale aircraft that I know are loader.

Tests I did with a DA150, stock mufflers, 25 feet:

Menz 32x10 108 DB

Menz 30x12 103db

Mejzlik 28.5x12 3blade 101 DB (noticeably quieter and not nearly as bad in the air)

Now, with MTW 110K Cans, KS Cross over headers:

Menz 32x10 101DB

Menz 30x12 98 DB

Mejzlik 28.5x12 3 blade, 91 DB


One thing we have to remember here fellas is all of you are jumping to conclusions.... there HAVE BEEN NO ANNOUNCEMENTS from Mr. Hartness or TripleTree as to noise restrictions... so back down till we hear something. Another thing, guys flying 150cc birds, there is absolutely no reason to not fly cans... money is a BS excuse... I have heard guys cry the money factor yet own 3 40% airplanes... Modifying an airplane... no big deal, cut one hole in the angled plate of the motor box, cut a vent hole in the bottom of your gear plate (for example, you Carden has a large ply gear plate... it can handle it) and buy two 5$ can mounts from DA, screw or glue them in place to a glued in 1/2x1/3 block.

As for the warbirds, alot of them dont need mufflers. My DA 50 on a stock muffler passes my club's noise requirements of 96 DB with a 2 blade prop. Same thing with G62s and alot of the other popular warbird motors. The only ones that need to be modified are the guys running husky challengers on straight pipes in a P47!!! (Jim, had to throw that in there buddy!!!)

Like I said before though, we have heard NOTHING from Triple Tree and Mr. Hartness, so before throwing fuel in the fire and causing a four alarm panic... why dont we wait for the news befoe we whine about it?

[snap a saurus]

Agree John, it was a good idea to to start this thread because the sooner we get the info the better it is as people make early plans to attend, now the question was asked let's wait for the answear and not speculate.

[MattyMatt]

Tank, Snap, I agree, but this is not speculation... Mr. Hartness made it very clear several times at the Masters.

Now, wheather it will be enforced for the 2007 Nall or not is the question, but the fact is it is only a matter of time.

That being said, if it is going to be enforced for the 2007 Nall, I think it would have been a lot easier for people to handle if it was announced several months ago to allow people to prepare.

Biff, any input?

[KrisW]

	Quote: Originally Posted by MattyMatt
	Oh yeah... I'm about to propose the same restriction at our club. 96db.

When I joined the Charlotte Aeromodelers about 5.5 years ago, I got them to institute a 96 dB limit as well. Given the plethora of big gassers out there, it was the only logical thing to do.

Noise SUX

[KrisW]

	Quote: Originally Posted by GMoney
	That has to be one of the loudest props on the market! Its not the cans its the DB's Once the folks at the Nall figure out how they are going to measure sound, what equipment they are going to use its easy. At 25' cans arent mandatory. A good prop will do the job. I have tested way to many Aerobatic birds and we use 15' at all four corners. 106Db's with the 25' range its only going to hit the absurdly loud birds. I would wait and see what they actually set the limit at before I cancel my travel plans. Another thing to consider is the technology that will come from this. I have it on good authority you tell a modeler he cant do something he will lock himself in his shop until he proves you wrong. I see some killer cans coming out that will work bettter than what we have and cost less. weight less also.. if anybody casres I can try and post a summary of my clubs findings over a two year span.

I don't know which 32-10 was referred to, but it's kind of a moot point when you are torque rolling with standard exhaust diverters (they are NOT mufflers. . .)

There is NOTHING more bothersome (except a .049 perhaps) than somebody torque rolling in the middle of the runway when you are trying to HEAR your plane when flying it. BRAAPPPPPPPP BRAAPPPPPP BRAAAA BRAAAA BRRRR BRRR BRRRRRR BRRRAAAAPPP
BRAAAAAABRAAAAAABRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPpppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
The temptation to go over and turn off their transmitter is VERY strong. . .

Now, put a set of canisters in it and it's a lot quieter and more pleasant, and the rest of the flyers can also hear their own planes if they try to.

[cbk07]

Guys, if you read my original post this is exactly not want I wanted. Speculation and negativity will not change the situation either way. Laura said she will let us know as soon as there is a definitive answer. Let's just wait for that. Having said that, I only use mufflers as I feel I get better throttle response with lighter weight and easier setup. Money has nothing to do with it. I also know that the noise issue is a growing concern around the world and trust me, if the neighbors start complaining, you WILL use your field. I am the last person who wants to switch to cans, but will gladly do it if it means saving a flying field. I also know that all airframes are not conducive to cannisters, but there are many things we can do via props and quieter mufflers to improve the situation.
Our field is in the middle of knowhere, on a sod farm along the Connecticut river. Not a house to be seen. In the last couple of years I have noticed more and more people stopping by the field and saying "I have been hearing these planes for years, I always wondered where that noise came from" They are always friendly and enjoy looking at the planes, but that noise does get old every Sunday afternoon when they are laying around their pool....trust me. There is now a proposed noise ordinance on the agenda in the town where we fly and if that is passed we will have NO choice but to quiet our planes down significantly.
Complaining and whing will get us nowhere. Let's wait and see what is proposed for Joe Nall and work around their rules. Remember that it is a priveledge to fly there and we should respect whatever the crew there allows. Even with noise restrictions, it will still be the world's best flyi-in!!! Craig

[Temptation]

	Quote: Originally Posted by invert0914
	No joke that it will kill attendance. I my self and many others I know can't afford canisters and or they don't fit in our model. I wouldn't have the first clue how to butcher my carden cap and have heard I would be better off buying a new airplane desighned for cans. Carden 40% Cap was not. I guess my many years of going and support will have to end. I guess that would make my cap useless. Anyone that dosn't fly 3D modles are finished. No Warbirds, Lasers, Citabrias, or any civil aircraft for that matter. But who cares 3d aircraft have almost completely taken over the show. I think it would be a big mistake. I understand noise control but stock mufflers and the proper prop make a huge differance. I guess Matt Chapman better get some cans cause I know he dosn't qualify under the future noise restrictions. This baffles me.

Actually you can install cans in your 40% Carden Cap 232. I have the same exact plane, and I installed cans in mine. I did not have to butcher my plane at all. Infact, I think it turned out pretty damn good. Start saving your pennies, because as time goes on you will loose more and more places to fly until you install cans on that beast.

Here is a thread with some pics of my install, starting with post #5. Canister Mounting

Mike Darr

[Temptation]

For all of the guys that are saying a mandatory can rule will kill the Nall. Wrong, not running cans will kill the Nall. Also, for those that say they can't afford cans, we'll sorry to say, but you can't afford your airplane. It's that simple guys.

Now, I own a plane that everybody said I couldn't put cans in. A 40% Carden Cap 232. We'll I did some research and pulled it off. Look at the above post for link to the thread showing my installation. It can be done if you want to do it.

The reason I installed cans in my 40% plane is because I wanted to be able to fly at any event I choose without having to worry about my plane being to loud. Trust me it's worth it.

Mike Darr

[MattyMatt]

cbk07... I apologize for helping to move your post off target. I will start a new one addressing general noise issues. Thanks for asking the question as I was wondering if it was going to be enforced or not.

[kasey9]

I just wanted to update ya'll. The CD is working on all the paper work this week. I do not have the answer as of yet. Please just wait until we know what the rules are going to be and not speculate about them. We want every one to come to the Joe Nall and have a great time.

The website www.joenall.com should be updated by then end of next week.

Thanks,

Laura

[TeamFlatout]

I will keep my 40% Carden Cap and Chapman Cap on standard exhaust. However I will change the 2 blade to a 3 blade if necessary. Cans are out of the question. I like the
BRAAPPPPPPPP BRAAPPPPPP BRAAAA BRAAAA BRRRR BRRR BRRRRRR BRRRAAAAPPP
BRAAAAAABRAAAAAABRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPpppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
Fortunately I fly at a field that will never be lost for any reason and doesnt have a noise requirement.