Joe Nall and Mufflers??

[BigBird]

	Quote: Originally Posted by AHP
	You could also get hit my a meteor while holding a winning lottery ticket.. I think the main point was noise is most certainly not a concern.

Your right in saying that his case is not about noise right now. Is that the ONLY place he flys at? I was just saying that nothing is for sure and we as modelers need to take it upon ourselfs to produce less noise. That is one less reason for people to complain about. I'll leave it at that.
Jason

[TeamFlatout]

	Quote: Originally Posted by BigBird
	Ok that sounds like there is no possible way. Anything is possible, there was a feild like that in Neosho,MO back in the 90's. Its a 4 lane freeway now. Money talks and your hobbyshop owner will sell that sucker in a second if someone else wants it bad enough. I know you think who would want to pay for land out in the middle of nothing. Walmart, Nascar track, Amusement park, Subdivision, etc. etc. Need we go on? Jason

Well that could possibly be the case if the field was in a highly traveled area but this is out in the sticks in Americus, GA. Probably a town of less than 10k. Check out Americus on the map. It has one red light and his field is 15 miles outside of Americus. He's in the middle of Americus and Andersonville, GA. Nothing but farm land and hunting land. So there is no threat of Walmart (already there) Nascar track (in Atlanta already), Amusement (also in atlanta) or subdivisions coming around. The main source of business in this town is chicken farms and small mom and pop stores. I fly at Hodges Hobbies. Go check out the website or visit the field. Would love to see you there. When you get there, you'll understand what I'm talking about. It isnt going anywhere.

[TheTank]

	Quote: Originally Posted by RollingHarrier
	As far as cans go I have a Chip Hyde extra with a DA100 and KS cans. Transition sucks for 3D, and I have a positive EXP curve (futaba) to help clear the exhaust. It should be good for the IMAC though. And I've had experienced people try to adjust the motor to get it to run properly on cans. Barny Liftoff had the same problem with his DA150 on cans. I had JMB canisters on my ZDZ160 when I first got the plane. After the header broke I switched to standard exhaust and the performance improvement in the mid-range was very noticable. Why did the pro's switch to standard exhaust and 2 bladed props at TAS when they had the quite setup at the masters? Makes ya think. There have also been times when I've been to a club with a DB limit (Tank) where there were guys flying glow birds that far exceeded the DB limit (diego Red with a ST 90 non-stock muffler) and nobody said anything to him. So I think gas birds get a bad rap. Just my .02.

Jim, I agree, your CHP Extra has a nasty hole in the transition, but that has to do more with those tuned KS pipes and the header length than anything, same was the with Bernie and his KS pipes which are tuned as well. My MTWs dont have that problem, you have flown my Yak, no mid range issues or throttle problems. Setting up the resolution correctly has resulted in me running no curve, with perfectly linear throttle response. Im sure if I were running the KS tuned pipes, the story would be different.
As for the TAS going back to mufflers, most just went back to 2 bladed props, but maintained the cans or greves pipes. Most ran 2 blades at that high altitude in most cases because of the altitude and its affects.... but, that said, Mark won the shootout after crashing, and he flew his Masters Airplane on pipes and a 3 blade after losing the airplane with the 200. Wayne Geffon won unlimited on cans and a 3blade...

Jim, you definetly did get picked on by that one jerk at the club regarding noise, and yes that dago red was annoying, but no where near the DB limit of the club. Its a perfect example of why DB is not a good way of measuring/controlling noise. Lou's ZDZ 160 on cans pinged the DB meter at 112 db when measured, yet seemed super quiet and just had a low hum. Yet a cox .049 barely reads on a DB meter, yet pierces the ear and annoyes the hell out of us (much like that Dago Red), but according to the meter, its good to go, to you and I, its like that annoying mosquito that just keeps buzzing around. Alot has to do with perception rather than DB level, unfortunately, there is no other numeric metric from which to measure sound

[AHP]

What about turbines and noise restrictions? Cans won’t do much for them.. Jets are becoming more and more popular at my club. We actually lengthened and widened the runway about a year ago to accommodate them. I doubt a 30lb+ turbine is under 96db at WOT.

[TheTank]

	Quote: Originally Posted by TeamFlatout
	Well that could possibly be the case if the field was in a highly traveled area but this is out in the sticks in Americus, GA. Probably a town of less than 10k. Check out Americus on the map. It has one red light and his field is 15 miles outside of Americus. He's in the middle of Americus and Andersonville, GA. Nothing but farm land and hunting land. So there is no threat of Walmart (already there) Nascar track (in Atlanta already), Amusement (also in atlanta) or subdivisions coming around. The main source of business in this town is chicken farms and small mom and pop stores. I fly at Hodges Hobbies. Go check out the website or visit the field. Would love to see you there. When you get there, you'll understand what I'm talking about. It isnt going anywhere.

You would think so, but really, you have no idea. It only takes one person to make a complaint... one farmer... one developer... one resident. I have seen plenty of fields go by the wayside, and you may not have a problem now... but you just might in the future. Assuming the idea that nothing can happen, its just not possible is a rather arrogant attitude which is what leads to places losing fields. Though it may not be a concern now, as more land is developed for a growing population, and houses encroach where farm land is no longer profitable, problems arise. Case and point, Pennsylvania farmland, nothing around for miles.. no real business, sparsely developed... you would never think anything would be built there... Cabelas put in a new outdoor super center.... 1000's of acres of farmland are now houses... warehouse facilities have been built and the place is growing like crazy. All it took was the fact that a highway was in the vicinity.

[TheTank]

	Quote: Originally Posted by AHP
	What about turbines and noise restrictions? Cans won’t do much for them.. Jets are becoming more and more popular at my club. We actually lengthened and widened the runway about a year ago to accommodate them. I doubt a 30lb+ turbine is under 96db at WOT.

You ever hear a loud turbine in the air??? Like I said before, DB is not a good measure of noise. its all about perception. Only thing quieter than turbines are electrics.

[AHP]

	Quote: Originally Posted by TheTank
	You ever hear a loud turbine in the air???

Sure have! Skull splitting loud when doing relatively low WOT passes. I don't think I've ever heard a 'quiet' turbine-powered plane once it's passed in front of me.

[EddieWeeks]

I fly 42 lbs turbines... They will max out a sound meter from the behind the plane...

[TeamFlatout]

	Quote: Originally Posted by TheTank
	You would think so, but really, you have no idea. It only takes one person to make a complaint... one farmer... one developer... one resident. I have seen plenty of fields go by the wayside, and you may not have a problem now... but you just might in the future. Assuming the idea that nothing can happen, its just not possible is a rather arrogant attitude which is what leads to places losing fields. Though it may not be a concern now, as more land is developed for a growing population, and houses encroach where farm land is no longer profitable, problems arise. Case and point, Pennsylvania farmland, nothing around for miles.. no real business, sparsely developed... you would never think anything would be built there... Cabelas put in a new outdoor super center.... 1000's of acres of farmland are now houses... warehouse facilities have been built and the place is growing like crazy. All it took was the fact that a highway was in the vicinity.

Obviously you have no idea about the area or anything. Let me put it this way. Its family land. All the family lives right there and is not selling it or anything. The family owns the land that the farmers use to grow there crop. Oh and the owners of the land have never been hurting for money and never will. You have no idea about the place and probably have never been there. Um I'm done here seems like I'm beating a dead horse. I'm done on this subject.

[Tonybons]

Craig,

I am not going to speculate if there will be any restrictions this year at Nall. Just my 2 cents on cannisters since you say you don't prefer them. When I first started using them, I didn't like them due to the difference in throttle sound doing certain low throttle maneuvers such as low and slow hi alpha Knife Edges, torque rolls etc. After having used them for a while now, I don't really feel/hear the difference any more. Eventually all my planes will have cannisters.

Tony

[cbk07]

	Quote: Originally Posted by TeamFlatout
	Obviously you have no idea about the area or anything. Let me put it this way. Its family land. All the family lives right there and is not selling it or anything. The family owns the land that the farmers use to grow there crop. Oh and the owners of the land have never been hurting for money and never will. You have no idea about the place and probably have never been there. Um I'm done here seems like I'm beating a dead horse. I'm done on this subject.

Thank you!!!!!

[cbk07]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Tonybons
	Craig, I am not going to speculate if there will be any restrictions this year at Nall. Just my 2 cents on cannisters since you say you don't prefer them. When I first started using them, I didn't like them due to the difference in throttle sound doing certain low throttle maneuvers such as low and slow hi alpha Knife Edges, torque rolls etc. After having used them for a while now, I don't really feel/hear the difference any more. Eventually all my planes will have cannisters. Tony

Tony, John Banks has been telling me the same for a long time now. I know the first few guys up here were using the "wrong" style cannisters and/or setups and the throttle lag was horrible. I have also flown some of the newer and better setups and realize they are much improved. As I mentioned before, I think it won't be long before everyone up here in the densley populated Northeast will be using them whether they want to or not. I will definitely give them a try in a plane this summer as I do not want to be part of the ignorance that is causing the loss of fields world wide. This hobby has given alot to me over the years and I have seen too many sites closed or restricted due to noise issues. Craig