Going for Private License!

[Texx]

I just read this entire thread...Holy crow what strong debate on why not to become a pro pilot!
Oh well...guess I'll just go work at Burger King!

"Did ya want that Super-Biggie Size Mam?"
(I'm just rehersing my lines.)

It's not for everyone, but for the chosen few that I personally know, it hasen't been a total loss.
I have a few close friends thet fly for FEDEX that are so happy it makes me sick! Long hours but then plenty of down time too and six figure incomes! Allot of the pilots with the major Airlines have taken a few lumps after 9/11. It's not all wine and roses in that line of work...than again, it all dosen't suck either!

[GremlinX]

I have no intentions of pro pilot. Just for fun..

[Kiwi]

If I can put my 5 cents worth in here it may help a few up and coming private pilots for the future.

Of the thousands who learn to fly only a small percentage actually go the whole hog and end up driving the heavies around. It is a hard road to get to that stage and anyone who has done it has my respect. You almost need to sell your soul to get into it. The conditions guys put themselvs through to get time on experience is not easy or well paid. Military pilots excluded.

Anyway that is not the thrust of what I want to say. Private flying can be and is enjoyable, despite legislation these days that would rather see general aviation out of the way. Beating around in your Cessna's Piper's Beechcrafts etc is a hoot and is also serious business. However the thing that turned me on and made my everyday Cessna flying a real buzz was to go to a good flight school and do some aerobatics. My feelings are there should be 10 hours of aerobatic time compulsory for private pilots as part of getting your ticket.

Why??. Well it gets you out of the envelope of straight and level flight, rate 1 turns and stalls. I can vouch that when the crap hits the fan none of those standard skills is going to do a thing for your confidence or ability to take the right way out.

I will use a real life event as an example. I was flying my old Piper Cub through a narrow valley pass one morning on my way to get a 50 hour inspection. The day was mirror smooth and it was one of those days when you settle back and soak it all in. While entering the pass I decided that seeing as it was such a perfect day I would go over the crest at a few hundred feet. Cubs like flying low OK!. Well about two thirds of the way through I noted that we seemed to be moving along faster than normal. A quick glance at the bushes and weeds on the hill sides some 200 feet below and beside showed me they were flattened against the ground with a wind at least 60 to 70 knots. Note, up until here no turbulence at all. Cheezes, full power get going up as fast as possible and get the airspeed back to about 70 mph. The old cub can take a beating at that speed. As I went over the top of the pass and started down the fun came along. There was a lee rotor that was a monster. The old cub just got picked up and tossed in it. In all that furry of activity we got rolled over past the 90 degrees and the easiest thing to do was to keep it rolling. It was less stressful on the plane to let the inretia take it through the roll than it was to fight it and try to get back against the forces that were taking it over.

If I had no earobatics experience I know I would have fought that roll because the fear of going inverted was greater than the unkown of fighting to keep the wings level.

What I'm trying to say here is wings level is not always the best place to be and being comfortable in a really unnatural attitude is really important.

I am not trying to scare anyone off flying in light aircraft as that is bulls wool. It is fun to the max but it can be 100 times more fun and less stressful once you get comfortable with your own limits. There is not an airplane in the world that cannot be looped, rolled etc without overstressing a rivet on the thing. It is the pilot who is the limiting factor in every case.

Bottom line, go do some aeros with a good instructor. It may just change your whole veiw on the way you fly and how you handle situations. Plus I promise you flying in circles in full scale is as boring as flying circles in RC.

Kiwi

[73drvr]

I STRONGLY disagree! Just because you are bitter about your flying job, you should NEVER squash the dreams of another person. Telling them to save thier money is unjust to the whole profession. Besides, maybe they simply just want to get thier Private.

Anyone who is going for thier pilot liscense, I say, go for it and have a blast!! You will be rewarded with an experience few will ever have. And if you want it as a career, go for that too. Dont let anyone who is pissed off at thier job to tell you otherwise. Tough times don't last, but tough people do!

[73drvr]

My reply was to matus777 and leardriver.

[Sukhoikid]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Kiwi
	If I can put my 5 cents worth in here it may help a few up and coming private pilots for the future. Of the thousands who learn to fly only a small percentage actually go the whole hog and end up driving the heavies around. It is a hard road to get to that stage and anyone who has done it has my respect. You almost need to sell your soul to get into it. The conditions guys put themselvs through to get time on experience is not easy or well paid. Military pilots excluded. Anyway that is not the thrust of what I want to say. Private flying can be and is enjoyable, despite legislation these days that would rather see general aviation out of the way. Beating around in your Cessna's Piper's Beechcrafts etc is a hoot and is also serious business. However the thing that turned me on and made my everyday Cessna flying a real buzz was to go to a good flight school and do some aerobatics. My feelings are there should be 10 hours of aerobatic time compulsory for private pilots as part of getting your ticket. Why??. Well it gets you out of the envelope of straight and level flight, rate 1 turns and stalls. I can vouch that when the crap hits the fan none of those standard skills is going to do a thing for your confidence or ability to take the right way out. I will use a real life event as an example. I was flying my old Piper Cub through a narrow valley pass one morning on my way to get a 50 hour inspection. The day was mirror smooth and it was one of those days when you settle back and soak it all in. While entering the pass I decided that seeing as it was such a perfect day I would go over the crest at a few hundred feet. Cubs like flying low OK!. Well about two thirds of the way through I noted that we seemed to be moving along faster than normal. A quick glance at the bushes and weeds on the hill sides some 200 feet below and beside showed me they were flattened against the ground with a wind at least 60 to 70 knots. Note, up until here no turbulence at all. Cheezes, full power get going up as fast as possible and get the airspeed back to about 70 mph. The old cub can take a beating at that speed. As I went over the top of the pass and started down the fun came along. There was a lee rotor that was a monster. The old cub just got picked up and tossed in it. In all that furry of activity we got rolled over past the 90 degrees and the easiest thing to do was to keep it rolling. It was less stressful on the plane to let the inretia take it through the roll than it was to fight it and try to get back against the forces that were taking it over. If I had no earobatics experience I know I would have fought that roll because the fear of going inverted was greater than the unkown of fighting to keep the wings level. What I'm trying to say here is wings level is not always the best place to be and being comfortable in a really unnatural attitude is really important. I am not trying to scare anyone off flying in light aircraft as that is bulls wool. It is fun to the max but it can be 100 times more fun and less stressful once you get comfortable with your own limits. There is not an airplane in the world that cannot be looped, rolled etc without overstressing a rivet on the thing. It is the pilot who is the limiting factor in every case. Bottom line, go do some aeros with a good instructor. It may just change your whole veiw on the way you fly and how you handle situations. Plus I promise you flying in circles in full scale is as boring as flying circles in RC. Kiwi

I do plan to get with a good instructor to also do aerobatics. Probably will be later in the future. But I do plan to do this. By the way I would have like to see the cub roll lol. Nice job on that.

[3dav8r]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyinrazrback
	The best way IMO is to let the military pay for your aviation training, and you don't have to do it full time. The best kept secret is the air national guard or reserve, fly cool planes part time, and do whatever else you want to do after that. Leaving active duty myself end of this year to go to the guard

The guard can be a good thing just don't plan on ever having any time at home: example if you get a fighter slot, 12 -14 days off per month with your airline job, then as a fighter guy the guard will want approx. 8-9 days per month, that leaves you with a whopping 4-5 days off a month. Plus the guard is back filling the full-timers so the guard is by no means a part time job.

Just something to think about.

[Flyinrazrback]

Most fighter guard units deploy 120 days every 15 months, so there is good stability there, and you know way in advance before you go. I mention the guard as its a good deal, and you get the best pilot training available, which looks very good on any resume for civilian flying jobs.

[Biff]

Kiwi hit the nail on the head. A young student came to me one day with fear in his eyes. He was choked by fear just taxiing. I knew I had my work cut out for me. He was a mess,nothing came naturally to this guy. He had the passion to fly,but no natural skills and a BIG fear of heights. He messed up the simplest things I asked of him, often he was at the point of crying. I figured if he wouldn't give up neither would I. It took 125 hours of flight insrtuction before I turned him loose for solo, but at that point he was becoming at one with the aircraft. He has since taken to flying rather well, and give's me the credit for where he is today. That scared little crying momma's boy is none other than Matt Chapman. I called him "Little Matty" then as now. Just goes to show what you can do with determination,hard work and me as an instructor. When you get nervous and the situation looks bad, just be calm,trust your instruments and remember the story of the little pilot who thought he could. Just because he came from a VERY rich family, I didn't let him just buy an airplane and be an instant sky king. I made him wash/wax my whole fleet every day after school. First day his limo dropped him off he was wearing a leather flying jacket,silk scarf,a mascara drawn pencil thin mustache and Ray-bans. His butler gave me a wad of cash and wished me luck. I handed back the cash and had my neophite clean the porta johns,,just establishing who's the boss. His family ended up buying American airlines,,hence the four stripes.One way or another you can get an airline job. Follow your heart.
PS,,the MD in MD- 88 stands for Matt's dad. Wait till you see the new company pant jobs for American airlines,,,,,

[Matt Chapman]

It's just not right, Biff.

[Kiwi]

Biffy.

The only reason you are getting away with putting all this on MATT is the CAP is a single holer mate. I bet he could get you to repaint the inside of that canopy with the same scheme as the outside, just fresher and with a certain acid odour.

Man I am glad I live far enough away so as not to get mixed up in this stuff from close range.

Your livin dangerously mate.

Kiwi

[JeeUm]

Kiwi, I couldn't agree more about the aerobatic training requirement idea, I think that a mandatory amount of hours should be included in the PPL course.

I was working at a flight school that took delivery of one of the first Katana DA-20's. The airplane was delivered by one of the factories "Test Pilots". Being the chief instructor I was the first guinea pig to take the airplane up with him.

We go through testing the normal flight envelope and everything seems great for a 80hp little composite dishwasher. Knowing the airplane is certified for spin training and knowing that with future CFI applicants we'll be doing spins in the plane I ask him to take me through a spin.

I get this kinda of one eyebrow raised look from him, but he say's ok. He proceeds to take out the manual and read through the checklist. He reads through it, see's where it says "entry speed:60kts" and that must have stuck in his brain. We all know that for an airplane to spin, it must be stalled right? Well not this guy.

He starts setting the airplane up for the spin, as we're slowing down I'm wating for the stall. But right as we hit 60kts he proceeds to give it full up elevator and full left rudder! Bet you didn't know a Katana could snap roll? We get to inverted and he proceeds to let go of the controls and looks at me as we're flying along inverted and says your airplane. Great! Upside down in an airplane with a total of 7 hours on the airframe and with me having a total of 20 minutes flying it. Motor starts chuggin and I just slowly roll back to upright.

It was a very quiet ride back to the airport and a very interesting conversation with the Factory rep that was with their "test pilot".