Pros & Cons-Composite frame vs. wood airframe

[Jamieman]

Ive always had wood.
My 2.3 in my avatar is my first Compy & first gasser.
I was scared of all the stories of landing gear snapping off & the fact they are harder to repair, but with time i have learnt this isn't the case. Methods are just different.
You cant beat the finish after a coat of polish & they do fly really well.

[madmax]

Comp planes are awesome. When I owned my first one, I ended up selling it just a few months later. They are very delicate, and are prone to hangar rash. As you may know, I have a problem with falling on planes. I also bounce them off the ground frequently. Wood repairs easy. That's why I fly wood.

[Wild Thang]

My dad and I are going to try to make a compy with in the next few months. Were thinking a 100cc Yak 54.

I've only flown wood planes so I cant really judge comps except for their sweet looks .

[jaguar bone]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Jamieman
	Ive always had wood. My 2.3 in my avatar is my first Compy & first gasser. I was scared of all the stories of landing gear snapping off & the fact they are harder to repair, but with time i have learnt this isn't the case. Methods are just different. You cant beat the finish after a coat of polish & they do fly really well.

Humm, put it that way, I better restate a personal commitment to also always having WOOD IS GOOD!

funnin' aside...

Your experience / assessment of composites is encouraging.
I would think to get a ding in composites surface would have to be considerably harder hits than a ding in wood -NO?
So, wouldn't you agree that hanger rash is MUCH less likely from simple bumping around?

And yes - I'm weary of bubbling covering - to the point of sheer apathy. Now I just live with it mostly -15 minutes in Fl. sun - all that re-ironing the night before can prove futile - for most darker colors.

[FastnLow]

For me it is all about the looks, compys just look better. Also if you use alot of smoke the compy airframes don't tend to absorb oil as bad as wood.

[pepatrick]

first of all...I love Comp-Arf planes...I think they look better, fly better and less over all maintenance than anything else out there. I dont mind spending the money for a better quality plane...On the other hand...I think Comp-Arf really needs to work on customer service. I have had quite a few issue with purchases over the last couple of years from broken fuses (not wanting to resolve the issue, but finally did) to ordering new louvers and only getting 7 when I requested 8...Now...I have a 3.0 Yak that the canopy blew off and needs to be replaced (my fault). It did no damage to the airframe so I was lucky...but I have not heard back from Comp-Arf on what it will take to get a new one. I have a $3k plane that is unflyable at the moment. Haveing this plane at the field is great advertising for Comp-Arf as it is large...flies extremely well and well...it just looks damn good. I know the Comp-Arf guys are at Fl Jets this week, but they could at least attempt to communicate. I have spent nearly $8k on Compy planes over the last year and a half...and am really getting frustrated over the lack of good customer service. I am chompin at the bit to get a new 3.0 Extra 260, but I am not doing anything until they start taking care of their customers. While I prefer the comp-arf brand...I may switch to Extreme Flight..I have most of the EF collection and customer service from Chris is absolutely top notch...

[Flyinhigh]

I have to ask if you know that Ray Labonte is the rep here in the US that deals with spare/replacement parts. He has been exceptionally helpful to me over the past year or so, and will take and return calls directly so you don't have to wait for e-mail replies (though he does those, also). If you aren't dealing with him already, give him a try - I bet he will change your perspective. (his number and contact info are on the Comp-ARF website).

[crhammond]

I have wood (QQ Python), Composite and foam/wood (3W Extra 330 40%) and Comp-Arf all-composite (Extra 260 35%.)

There are pros and cons as everyone has pointed out. I like the looks of the Composite fuse because of the nice round curves, no visible stringers, great finish and no covering to worry about.

The Seams on the Comp-Arf are not so nice ... and on the wing LE they can occasionally split but it is rare. I have heard that smoke oil can get into a seam and cause a failure. Smoke has always done a number on normal covering in short order on my wood planes.

I fly a lot. A wood frame needs serious work after a season for me. I'm talking 300 to 400 flights. A composite plane if you don't have a misfortune will hold up a LONG LONG time. If you build it right and do regular checks and maintenance you can go without needing to do anything significant for a whole season (400 flights.)

Having had all three, 3W wins hands-down. The fuses have re-enforcing laid-in, there is no seam, the paintwork is FLAWLESS. The wings are sheeted foam that is covered in PAINTED monokote. The covering is flawless and only ever needs some wax to keep it looking perfect. They cost a fortune... but right now the Level-3 (basically an ARF ready to assemble) 40% Extra is on sale for $2395 which IMO is a bargain considering what you get. To me the 3W strikes the right balance. Too bad the Yak costs so much...

My 3W is very light at 38lbs w/smoke. My 35% 260 is 27lbs. My Python is rediculously light at 27lbs.
All on DA's with cans (Python is on pipes.)

My Comp-Arf 260 feels no better or worse than any other well trimmed 35% I have flown. The 40% 3W is mind blowing good but it is the only 40% I've had. The composite planes look better in the air and on the ground. It is the smooth shape and glossy flawless paint... they look 100% real in the air.

To me the main advantage of wood is you can repair it easily and build your own if so inclined. I have had to repair a couple of LG mounts on Composite planes as that is a weak spot due to how stiff they are. I would not want to have to make a more major repair. But my composite planes both land a lot better than some of the wood planes I had in the past. More due to the design I think. But you must try not to land them hard, ever... which is a down side for sure.

I have had planes with a "slab" side which makes them tough in a cross wind - the rounded sides on the composite fuses seem to me to help in cross winds.

I can't comment on the Python yet - I hope to fly it in the next 3 weeks as our snow is just melting now. The covering seems very good and the construction is great. But it would not be easy at all to repair IMO... the construction is quite complex.

I've never had a Carden or Dalton but I have seen a few that look just about as good as a 3W composite, But they were pro-built and covered and cost more than a 3W... but beautiful, light and very strong.

[jaguar bone]

Thanks all for chiming in. I appreciate the level headed and civil demeanor you (usually) get at Flying Giants.

I'm getting the feeling that my next plane will need to be a Comp-ARF . Once past the add'l cost issue, composites perpetually return on the investment - only a repair will be a challenge - if ever needed.

[KrisW]

	Quote: Originally Posted by jaguar bone
	Thanks all for chiming in. I appreciate the level headed and civil demeanor you (usually) get at Flying Giants. I'm getting the feeling that my next plane will need to be a Comp-ARF . Once past the add'l cost issue, composites perpetually return on the investment - only a repair will be a challenge - if ever needed.

Get the SuperXtra. . IMO it's still the best Comp Arf flying

[jaguar bone]

Actually I'm eyeballin' the Extra 2.12m (all white)
http://www.composite-arf.com.hk/ar/Product?723000

50cc is all my ride will allow - I refuse to "do trailers" again!
(maybe a used panel van one day soon might open up the sq. ins I haul to the flying field some day.)

In an all white finish - I'll get Red Aero RC to do one up right!!
I do have the coolest idea for my next birds' graphics scheme too!
For essentially the same $$ as my EF YAK- this change is a tempting decision. (sorry Chris!)

[crhammond]

	Quote: Originally Posted by jaguar bone
	Actually I'm eyeballin' the Extra 2.12m (all white) http://www.composite-arf.com.hk/ar/Product?723000 In an all white finish - I'll get Red Aero RC to do one up right!! I do have the coolest idea for my next birds' graphics scheme too! For essentially the same $$ as my EF YAK- this change is a tempting decision. (sorry Chris!)

Very nice. If you do get Red Arrow to do the paint work you might as well remove the seams too. Its a big filler and and sanding job but it would look great.

Just go way easy on the paint. You can add a lot of weight painting your own vs. in the mold if you're not careful.

The gear mount is different on this one - it should be more stout than on the larger planes.