Pros & Cons-Composite frame vs. wood airframe

[FastnLow]

	Quote: Originally Posted by crhammond
	Stacy - the newer QQ and AW quick builds just fall together. I built my QQ Python in 12 hours - including custom mounts for the pipes. Wood and composite have their pros and cons. I prefer composite once it is done as I find there is less overall maintenance and they look great for a very long time. Wood ARF s are great because they are cheap and super fast to get in the air and generally take less effort to repair. Long Alberta winters mean 7 months of building time a year... My Comp-Arf 260 took 40+ hrs. My 3W Extra took maybe 60 (some by me, some the the previous owner.) Now you want long - try a composite warbird. Just because they are "built", have panel lines and rivets doesn't take much away from the time required. I am over 150 hrs into my P-47 and P-51 (each) and neither are 1/2 way to flying yet... but I still get comments that "those shouldn't be allowed in expert because they are ARF's!" - total BS. I have seent he Krill builds and yes they are much less ARF than most others. 3W and Comp-Arf are similar. The newer Comp-Arf's have more done for you (eg. canpoy frame tabs are pre-done.)

Chris, when I met you last Aug you had a 100cc cap and panzel if I am not mistaken. Now if I got this right you have biult in one winter a , QQ bipe, 35% 260 comp and a 40% 3w extra all DA powered no doubt. And if I remember correctly you have only been into large scale for 3 years? That's Awesome!!! This is what happens when you get the bug for the giants, go big or go home!!! Will you be in Surrey at the end of May for Jerrys Imac meet?

[crhammond]

Hey Stacy,

I DEFINE the phrase "bitten bad by the GS bug!"

Yes I am starting my 3rd season now (soloed Sept 17 2005.) Not quite the right sequence but those are the 3 planes I have flying this season (plus a 2M pattern bird - Comp-Arf Integral.)

Last season I flew the Cap in Scalemasters and the Panzl in IMAC.
The Cap was my 3rd or 4th airplane; I went .46 size Mustang -> 33% Extra -> 35% Panzl LOL. Sold to a local last month for IMAC.

Panzl stuff was moved to a QQ Python (nice airplane) - thats my "fun fly" airplane. DA100 on pipes and 28x10.

The Extra 260 I built last summer but didn't trust myself to fly until the end of the season once my fingers were working better. Awesome airplane. DA100 on cans and 26x12. Just "finished" trimming it 2 weeks ago and it really rocks now.

The 3W I got used - it was just too good a deal (50% of new with about 12 flights on it) so that is my main IMAC bird. I flew it 20 times at the end of last season. AWESOME does not quite describe it. DA150 on cans and 3-bade 25.5x3.

Panzl is retired and hanging in my garage - it will likely fly again some season and it held up great. Can't bring yself to sell something that started as a box of sticks

Yes I like the giants LOL.

I am building a giant P-47 and a giant P-51 now - but they are 2 to 3 year projects.

Also flew some small electric jets last season. I want a bigger electric jet but waiting for the right fan/battery to be worked out by others first. Looking for a 120mm fan 1:8 size - something for Scalemasters in 2010/2011.

I just love to fly - plain and simple.

Gordon and I might make it out to BC or WA late in the season. I am CDing and flying in 2 fun flys, 2 IMACs, 1 Patten and 1 Scalemasters event locally so from June - August is PACKED for me. Have to fit family time in there too. Then my dad visits from New Zealand in September.

Next season I have to pick ONE (okay maybe 2) things to concentrate on!

[FastnLow]

I know what you mean about the 3w 40% Extra, I flew one about 4 years ago (AWESOME) . It's what motivated me to biuld my 44% GCM and really jump into the big planes. Although I have been flying 23 years I never flew the big stuff till 2002. That's when I biult a Lanier 35% Giles with a DA 100. That expierience in itself leaned me towards the comps.

[jaguar bone]

Well I believe the "perception correction" is in order.
Composite aircraft are NOT ARFS!! -
Tho they sorta look like an ARF (it isn't a box of sticks and stuff) and cost more than most ARFs.

With this reality check in place one should decide if they are ready for more of a build project and at more cost. Finished plane will pay back in ways the wood ARF will always fall short (IMO) but the price to pay doesn't stop with the freight charges and sales tax.

FastnLow - you best be careful- the Siren song of "quick built" ARF is a hard tune to get outta yo head once its there!
Wax is wise.......

[CSpaced]

	Quote: Originally Posted by jaguar bone
	Well I believe the "perception correction" is in order. Composite aircraft are NOT ARFS!! -

Well said!

The title of this thread made me realize that I now know first hand that wood vs composite in the air is a draw!

[jaguar bone]

	Quote: Originally Posted by CSpaced
	Well said! The title of this thread made me realize that I now know first hand that wood vs composite in the air is a draw!

LOL!!
Wait jest a minute there!! I thought you had larger pieces in your pile than in Matt's - No?

`

Found a picture with "WAX IN".

[jaguar bone]

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[catman3070]

As for cost of wood over composite depends a lot on the size. I am building a 2.6 meter 260 composite for a friend of mine. He was planning on purchasing a quick build 75cc 260. Once I showed him the only difference between the 2 is in the price of the fuse, he went for the composite. If taken care of this plane will outlast any wood built aircraft on the market.

All these parts would have been the same for both planes.
DA 85
Canister Muffler
8 X 8611
Powerbox
2 X 4800 receiver batteries
1 X 2150 ignition battery
B&B 32oz tank
White Rose Engineering Tailwheel
Mejzlik Prop
Truturn Spinner
Dubro Wheels
AR9000 Receiver

I would have to say though once you get above the 2.6 Meter there is a big difference in price.

[jaguar bone]

	Quote: Originally Posted by catman3070
	As for cost of wood over composite depends a lot on the size. I am building a 2.6 meter 260 composite for a friend of mine. He was planning on purchasing a quick build 75cc 260. Once I showed him the only difference between the 2 is in the price of the fuse, he went for the composite. If taken care of this plane will outlast any wood built aircraft on the market. I would have to say though once you get above the 2.6 Meter there is a big difference in price.

50cc Composites like wood, are priced all over the place too;
BVM - 2x2 Edge 540T single color (white or yellow): Price - $980.00
KRILL KATANA S + - $1090.00
Composite ARF- Extra 2.12m (sport red scheme) Product#:$ 699.00 (Noted as an ARF)
All hinging is completed, fin post installed, landing gear mount laminated into position, integral motor firewall and exhaust tunnel installed, wings and stab spar sleeves and anti-rotation pins all jig-aligned and finished for you - so no worries about correct incidences and throws.The clear canopy fits in a molded fiberglass frame, and the cowling is pre-trimmed ready for final fixing.
Gee, Pay less get more pre-done (the oriental difference?)

[reyn3545]

	Quote: Originally Posted by jaguar bone
	50cc Composites like wood, are priced all over the place too; BVM - 2x2 Edge 540T single color (white or yellow): Price - $980.00 KRILL KATANA S + - $1090.00 Composite ARF- Extra 2.12m (sport red scheme) Product#:$ 699.00 (Noted as an ARF) All hinging is completed, fin post installed, landing gear mount laminated into position, integral motor firewall and exhaust tunnel installed, wings and stab spar sleeves and anti-rotation pins all jig-aligned and finished for you - so no worries about correct incidences and throws.The clear canopy fits in a molded fiberglass frame, and the cowling is pre-trimmed ready for final fixing. Gee, Pay less get more pre-done (the oriental difference?)

Yep... I just ordered one of the Comp ARF 2.12. Yaks a few weeks ago. After talking to several people, I stayed away from the Extra... apparently there is a LOT of work to do on the firewall on the Extra.

On both models, you have to measure, mark and cut all of the servo (or servo arm) holes, pull/pull exit holes, etc.. We'll see in a few days how much work we're actually looking at.

[Temptation]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Benji
	Yeeeah, I will post some pictures until I recieve it, it isnt to damaged, that yak was andrew jesky`s yak, now is mine, I will try to fix it the best way I can, I will use carbon fiber to lighten this.

Good luck on your project. I know the plane. Also, I just wanted to add, Andrew wasn't the one that crashed the plane. He sold it, and the new owner crashed it at the XFC.

[jhilderbrandt4]

Carden all the way!!!!!!!!!!!