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[MadMonkey]

	Quote: Originally Posted by RADRICH
	This is somewhat true. However, no one NEEDS a pro radio (10-14 channels) unless they're wanting to turn their hobby into a job or flying super-scale warbirds and such. There is also something to be said about you flying your plane with practiced skill versus the radio flying it for you. Full scale planes don't have computer mixing...it's all hands on. I take pride in the fact I fly using just the sticks. Think about it...how many channels on your transmitter do you actually need to fly a 50% Yak?! But... if money is no object...what the *ell!

Well... you're also 43 years old Us young guys like to tinker with gadgets!

In all honesty my 9303 was my first computer radio; all my radios since I was 9 were cheapies (my best radio was a JR 9 channel that had analog mixing; I didn't know what 90% of the stuff even did!). I'm probably one of the more anal people about mechanical tuning at my field though, which is strange for one of the "kids".

But, what I learned just recently is that as long as you know how to fly without using mixes first(which is as easy as flipping a switch, or just not using the mixes until you know what you're doing), you'll be just fine flying with them. I never bothered with a knife-edge mix until a year ago! I had the same mindset as you; I thought that flying mixes somehow cheapened the hobby.

It doesn't.

It really doesn't take any less skill to fly well with mixes that take out some bad habits; properly setting up a computer radio is a complete skillset in itself that (imho) should be learned by every pilot. Learned, but not relied upon to cover up bad habits. And multiple channels lessens the chance of a bad y-connector causing you to lose all aileron or elevator control.

Plus, using those mixes frees up your brain power to concentrate on smoothness or other issues.

For example, I had a Phoenix Giles 202 that would knife edge beautifully except for a slight tuck to the canopy and a little left roll, so I was never fully comfortable doing low level passes like that. I took about 10 minutes of setup and tuning a mix, and I was making sub-2' passes on the next flight!

The point I'm trying to make, I guess, is that computer radios are here to stay, so we might as well get used to them. Obviously this doesn't mean we should forget proper mechanical setup which is a MUST (it annoys me to no end when I catch someone using a subtrim to set an aileron instead of just turning the stupid clevis); but we should embrace newer technology, anything that helps us fly better and enjoy the hobby more.

And, um... about full scale planes not having computer mixing... there's plenty of them that wouldn't be able to fly without it

	Quote: Originally Posted by RADRICH
	Goldberg's planes are great!

Agreed, you really can't go wrong with any of the Goldberg planes. I've flown many of them and have owned several, too... they're all great in my experience

[FENWAYFLYER]

Nexstars are the biggest pile of crap. The only good thing about them are the sim. I taught several people to fly using a Twist 40 all you do is tame it down and put some expo in it. Everyone who learned on the Twist got trained in a hand full of flights. Whats nice about learning on the Twist is it has such a large envolope of flying were as a Nexstar is well heavy, under powered, and hate the wind and also have alot of bad habbits.

I know alot of people who say the same thing some of you are thinking, but facts are facts.

[RADRICH]

	Quote: Originally Posted by MadMonkey
	Well... you're also 43 years old Us young guys like to tinker with gadgets! In all honesty my 9303 was my first computer radio; all my radios since I was 9 were cheapies (my best radio was a JR 9 channel that had analog mixing; I didn't know what 90% of the stuff even did!). I'm probably one of the more anal people about mechanical tuning at my field though, which is strange for one of the "kids". But, what I learned just recently is that as long as you know how to fly without using mixes first(which is as easy as flipping a switch, or just not using the mixes until you know what you're doing), you'll be just fine flying with them. I never bothered with a knife-edge mix until a year ago! I had the same mindset as you; I thought that flying mixes somehow cheapened the hobby. It doesn't. It really doesn't take any less skill to fly well with mixes that take out some bad habits; properly setting up a computer radio is a complete skillset in itself that (imho) should be learned by every pilot. Learned, but not relied upon to cover up bad habits. And multiple channels lessens the chance of a bad y-connector causing you to lose all aileron or elevator control. Plus, using those mixes frees up your brain power to concentrate on smoothness or other issues. For example, I had a Phoenix Giles 202 that would knife edge beautifully except for a slight tuck to the canopy and a little left roll, so I was never fully comfortable doing low level passes like that. I took about 10 minutes of setup and tuning a mix, and I was making sub-2' passes on the next flight! The point I'm trying to make, I guess, is that computer radios are here to stay, so we might as well get used to them. Obviously this doesn't mean we should forget proper mechanical setup which is a MUST (it annoys me to no end when I catch someone using a subtrim to set an aileron instead of just turning the stupid clevis); but we should embrace newer technology, anything that helps us fly better and enjoy the hobby more. And, um... about full scale planes not having computer mixing... there's plenty of them that wouldn't be able to fly without it Agreed, you really can't go wrong with any of the Goldberg planes. I've flown many of them and have owned several, too... they're all great in my experience

Man...what's with all the "being old at 43"! Just the other day, the girl at the McD's window told me I was too old to listen to hip-hop! You're right about the computer radios though. I just wanted to make sure the new guy knew he didn't have to go out and smack down a butt-load of cash to enjoy the sport/hobby. I mispoke when I said "full scale". I should have said "full scale sport planes that are not fly-by-wire."

[MadMonkey]

	Quote: Originally Posted by RADRICH
	Man...what's with all the "being old at 43"! Just the other day, the girl at the McD's window told me I was too old to listen to hip-hop! You're right about the computer radios though. I just wanted to make sure the new guy knew he didn't have to go out and smack down a butt-load of cash to enjoy the sport/hobby. I mispoke when I said "full scale". I should have said "full scale sport planes that are not fly-by-wire."

Hah, I pick on my buddies the same way

I think it's because I already feel old at 24

And no, you don't have to spend a ton to get into this hobby... just spend your money wisely and you'll do well!

[MrKiwi]

I personally hate nexstar, I have trained quite a few people on them and all the extra training junk is useless. It is really not worth the money. You don't need the autopilot or the other stuff, besides the sim. I would get an aviastar, superstar, or tower trainer. Waaaaaaay better value. Or you can go with the electristar. VERY nice flying plane and it comes with a computer radio!

[nesikachad]

FWIW my first plane was a super cub electric and then I moved to the PTS mustang from H9.

The mustang is really a baby when you have all the "newb" trinkets attached; air brakes, flaps locked in the down position, the wing mods that prevent it from snapping, and the heavy 3 blade prop. Then as you progress you just start pulling the panties down on this thing and before long you have a little airplane that'll rip a 70+mph hole in the sky. I've gone to lengths to "try" and break mine by doing some very foolish things (full throttle power dives for instance) and it just keeps coming back for more. Landing is very easy thanks to the forward positioning of the wheels and the use of flaps.

It's been a great little airplane.

[Desertdualsport]

I found a local field and visited a couple times now, and am looking forward to getting into this now. Looks like I will go with an Avistar, as more than not they are recommended, and I agree that the auto correction equipment on the NExstar would hinder learning. Tha Avistar is an alieron plane too so I can learn everything at once. Although the mustang looks more interesting........

[mikeh]

I learned on a ugly stick or a big stick with a small gas engine. I can't remember if it was a zenoah 23 or 26. Anyway that was long time ago, don't know if they even make the plane anymore.

[Kevin B]

I have a little bit of a different take altogether.

I assume you will be learning at a local club with a local instructor. Check to see if you can learn on a "club trainer", a plane the club owns, on a buddy box. If you screw it up, which I doubt you will, offer to pay for it. Get a few flights under your belt and then get an honest appraisal of your abilities. Throw in a ton of sim time when you can't be at the field. Let your instructor be your guide. Most guys I have seen that buy a trainer that have any sim time at all are ready to advance to their second plane in no time at all.

Get yourself a good radio. You already have R/C experience with buggies and such. You know what you want, but not exactly what you need. My very first radio in the early to mid '80s was an old futaba fgk7 or some such. Got out of the hobby due to marriage and a child until 99 or 2000. My daughter actually got me back in the hobby. She went to a church camp, they had an old trainer that they were showing to the kids at camp. She came back, wanted one and we bought her a TT trainer (pos) but it got the job done. At the same time, I bought a GP .40 Corsair with a 9Cap futaba. I would still have that radio today if it hadn't been stolen.

Long story short, you will probably be out of the trainer very quickly based on your statements about your job and experience. You will be looking at a more complex 2nd and 3rd plane very quickly as well. You will then want and need the more complex features of mixing, whether it is multiple servos in the wing or gear doors and retracts.

I'd hate to see someone waste more on a plane and cheap radio that they won't use very long.

As a counter point though, if you did buy a trainer package, you could give it to your child to learn or if no kinds, give it to a friend or your R/C club or maybe even the boys and girls club.

[Desertdualsport]

Here's the plan;
Heading out tomorrow to get an Avistar RTF. I figure I will love it, the wife and baby will either love it, or just put up with it, so the Avistar will start the hangar and get me cheap experience regardless. When summer rolls around and I have clocked quite a few hours on the trainer (does everyone fly year round?), I will shore it up in the garage for when I have interested guests that want to fly, and I'll buy a more advanced plane and radio gear to keep. Worst case, the trainer and it's radio will get me experience and provide a second plane for when I get the one I want, after I learn more about the hobby.
Thanks everyone for the input!

By the way, I will be applying to Cocalico Prop Busters (5 mins from my house in PA) and possibly The Buck RC Club for an alternative field (30 mins away.) And I intend on crashing the trainer at the local school field until I meet enough people at the close field to not feel akward about showing up solo.....they only accept new members once a year, and I need a member to go with before I am accepted.

Nick

[Desertdualsport]

OK, got the Avistar, put it together, broke it in, and spent forever adjusting the throws and centers. taxiied it around my yard a few times, then took it to the local school yard for some fast taxiing and tooling around to get used to ground operations. It seems so ridiculously fast with no brake control it is scary. As I was bringing it in, and traversing a small dip, the prop touched ground ever so slightly and it broke....didn't know they were so brittle.

Question-----after the break in day, and I took it to the big field, while trying to start it, the prop came loose with the spinner
from the starter (it was cold, and took a couple hits to start) I followed the vague torque specs which were 1/2 turn plus 1/8 turn after the nut and washer contacted the blade. It was fine for many starts the first day, but came loose quickly after a few days sitting and then trying to start it........is this something I need to look out for? Is there a torque system I should put into regular use? I would hate to have it running and have a loose blade not knowing it.......

Thnaks, Nick