I've heard so much about the DA 50, it let me down!!!

[pipercub123]

Hello guys. I hope everyone is enjoying their memorial day. It's been a while since I've posted, but I'm back. Cut me some slack I've been building and flying, lol. I'm an A&P mechanic and I've been busy on Blackhawks and Seahawks while taking some college classes in hopes to become a manager so that one day I have money to build my own flying field so I can host my own fun flys for you all to come too. LOL

Anyway, I got the Airwild Extra 260 out on Sat for the first time this spring and went to the field with my dad. I'm on the start of my 3rd gallon. I flew three awesome flights. It's running slightly rich and ran great. On the fourth flight about a min in I was circling back around and I had a deadstick right at the beginning of the strip, whew! It was windy too, about 20mph winds. She kept her speed pretty well and came in for a nice 3 point. This is my first deadstick with her. Gassers shouldn't do this so I was a bit worried. I started it back up, ran it up so I could check it and than took off. All was good until I pulled vertical and got a bad sputter. Too scary on a windy day so I leveled out and went to circle back in when it sputterd again. Than I landed and it died while idling.

Back in the pits, it'd only start if I'd choke it and than it'd run off from choke for 3 sec. I did get it to run a few times at idle and than it'd die while throttling up. I messed with it for about an hr. I check the needles, they were clean. Checked the diaphragm and it looked okay. My fiance showed up to see me fly, she loves to see me fly and supports me knowing that even though this hobby is expensive it is still fun. Is she a keeper guys? She complains when I don't take her to the field. So she's there and this wonderful DA50 won't run!!! Oh, so I go home and couldn't even get it to fire after 3 min of flipping. I went to bed that night with a sore right shoulder.
Sun. I checked the line in the tank, the carb lines, and the filters. Everything was good. My ignition battery was good and all wires were in tact. I suspected it was a fuel delivery issue because it seemed to run great while idling the 3 sec. that it would run. So I pulled the engine off and tore the carb apart. Don't fret DA staff, I have rebuilt Lycoming engines and carbs. The needles again were fine, the diaphragm okay, reeds were good, pulse inlet good, and the pump okay. The internal needle was moving freely. I lightly blew out all the ports. The spark plug was taken out and yes you could tell it was running rich. I could see with the muffler and plug out that the piston was very clean and shiny. I also noticed a roller bearing on the crankpin. GOOD JOB DA!!! NICE BEARINGS!!! I'm not sure if a bearing on the crank is common on gassers. This is my second gasser. First was a US 41cc that ran great once the thing would start. I like the bearing because I had a Magnum 91 4 stroke that I sheared the pin on pulling vertical with my GP G202. This engine did have several gallons through it, but I think it was weak. The G202 was went into the corn field below it and is now repaired and resting until it gets a new engine.

So everything looked fine and I put it back together. I did clean the loctite off from the needles and did not use any on the carb bolts and screws because I thought perhaps some loctite had gotten in the ports. I tightened the carb so it was snug, I did notice that it wasn't quite as tight as I'd prefer when I first removed it.

Now everything back together and the needles set to the factory starting points, I took it out in the backyard to start it. Two good flips on choke and I got a pop. WOW, that's good seem so the carb was all dry! Unchoked, one flip and she's purring nice and steady. Seemed to idle better than it was yesterday, very steady. It now transitioned good, it still is lagging very slightly. I leaned both needles by an 1/8th after running it, but I still want it a little rich. After not having it transition at all on Sat, I'm very happy with a slight lag after idling a bit rich for a few min and than gunning it. Whew, I am going to the field today to fly. I hope I've gotten it fixed.

I have no idea what was causing the problem other than a little bit of dirt in the carb or perhaps it had a very slight leak from the carb not being tight. It was definatly a carb issue if you ask me because it ran great at idle for 3 sec so I don't see the ignition being a problem as it was a good idle. I've got a filter in my fuel can and a filter on the plane. I'm thinking about adding another filter on my can. I also don't run it in dirt, just grass. So who knows, I'm not sure if it was the loctite, not getting all the fuel out of it last fall, or I got dirt in it. The carb seemed spotless so I really think it was a bit loose and had a leak. I didn't see or hear any leaks before I removed the carb so who knows.

I just hope it keeps on ticking and doesn't give me anymore grief. I'm getting ready to tune it after this gallon is gone. I'm switching to Mobil 1 or amsoil on my 5th gallon. I'm going to run 50:1 for a bit. I've never tried 100:1. Is that enough oil? Must be. Where do you guys buy your spark plugs? I'm running the stock DA50 muffler from DA, man that thing sounds deep at idle. She's a bit loud!

Does anyone know the torque specs for the spark plug and the carb bolts? My plug is snug and the carb bolts are tight. When I first removed the plug, it was super tight from the factory. So tight I had a hard time hanging on to the plane while removing it. That's too tight!

TTYL guys and let me know about those torque specs if anyone knows. I hope I saved myself from paying to have it sent back and than being out of service for a week or so.

~Pete

[Ih82crash]

I have a 3W 70 that was flying great. yesterday when coming out of a blender the engine begins to sputter. I bring it in for a landing and taxi to the pitts. I try adjusting the needles and start it. it idles fine, but when I take it to full throttle, it sputters like it is rich. I assume that since it started after a blender it has to be something that came loose. Probably the clunk line came off and it is sucking air. I empty the fuel tank to see if that is the problem, but to no avail. Still idling fine, but sputtering at full throttle.

I go home puzzled wondering if I sucked a piece of debris in the carb or something, maybe it is my ignition at full throttle showing signs of going out. I have a MPI miracle switch on the ignition that is supposed to fail in the on pisition. Could it be? I change out the switch and bingo problem solved. I have read about a few guys having problems with the circuit board vibrating loose and the switch failing, I guess I joined that club. Long story short check your switch.

[3ddd]

that is why i make all my own ignition switch from mini lock in position toggles.i get a very good quality switch from the local electronic store for 6.00. never had one fail yet

[crazyjoe]

Having to use the choke and dieing when you gun it sounds like it cuold be lean on the low end

[rdgood]

Pete,

DA is very phone friendly..
I have an A & P ticket too! And a pilot license...

I did prop rebuilds(for UPS) and insurance rebuilds for an FBO (Aircraft Specialists) out of Louiville Ky for about 10 years.
I am in Semiconductors now - puts more bacon on the table!!!
Anyway - I call DA when ever I have a question. There is always someone who will talk to you..

I think the carb bolts are aluminum so not too tight...

I have tuned a bunch of DA 50s for several folks. I usually start with the high end and tune lean and then about 1/8th back rich. Then go to the low end get a high idle tune rich then tune back 1/16th lean then see if ya get a good transition...

This seems to always work well!!

Anyway I fly a DA-150 now for about 8 years now - I won't fly anything else ..IMHO!!



Ronster

[Al Lewis]

Pete, it sounds like a classic case of a clogged circuit in the carb. Since this is only your second gasser let me ask you what color is the stopper in your fuel tank? If it's not red/brown it will break down in the gas and all the filters won't help unless they're between your tank and carb.

[bodywerks]

	Quote:
	I leaned both needles by an 1/8th after running it, but I still want it a little rich.

LEAN IT OUT!!!!! The whole purpose of break-in fuel is to richen the oil content. Even during break-in, you want the air/fuel mixture to be optimal. Running a gasser too rich just breeds problems, especially during break-in.
did you check the little screen on the carb while you were in there? I bet it go a little gummed up while it sat...
BTW, I am an A&P, too, but I don't get my hands too dirty anymore as an inspector. If it weren't for the better pay and my bad back, I'd be back out on the floor with wrench in hand (or rivet gun )

[robertp17]

8 inch pounds as per DA specs. Although I will say be careful because I had to put a new rear crankcase half on mine and they said 65 inch pounds on the cylinder, 70 on the crankcase and 8 on the carb and while torquing the rear crankcase bolts one broke off before it got to 70

[pipercub123]

Hey guys, I hope everyone had a good week! Thanks for all the replies! It's a bit dark out here in PA today, so looks like tomorrow is going to be my flying day. I flew the plane last Mon. and it runs like a top. I flew five tankfulls with no sputters, good transition, no dead sticks, and a nice idle. Looks like I got it fixed! Tomorrow I'm going to start burning gal. 4 and I'm leaning it out to peak.

Ih82crash, glad you got your's going again.

3ddd, I love the avatar and good idea on the switch, I will keep that in mind.

crazyjoe, I was thinking the same thing and had no luck.


rdgood, what are semiconductors? LOL, I'm guessing an electronic component? I realized after college when looking for my first job that A&P's get paid a decent amount, but I too wanted more bacon on the table along with a bigger table. I'm not trying to be greedy, I just want to be able to survive with our changing economy. I still want to stay in aviation and though aviation maintenance management might be the answer. I don't expect a management job right out of college, but I do hope it could help me advance to a head mechanic or a supervisor position a bit quicker. Glad to hear the semiconductors are working out for you. Also, your DA 150 has survived 8 yrs worth of flying? How much flying do you do? I try to fly atleast one day out of every week four flights from early spring to late fall, a little more than most of my club members. If my gasser can last as long as yours, that'd be awesome. These gas engines must have a much longer life than the glow engines? I love my DA 50, even more now that it runs right, because it saves me a lot of dough from not buying so much glow fuel. With the amount of flying that I do, I calculated that in 6 mo. I'll burn 24 gal. of fuel through my DA 50 and that'll save me close to $500 assuming that glow fuel is $15 plus the $20 per case fuel charge for shipping. I don't have a local hobby shop so I support Towerhobbies. I have never in the past spent over $250 on an engine. Now that I'm heading into my second year at my first ever full time job I have extra money for more expensive engines. I'm really impressed with the quality of these gas engines, mainly the extra bearings on crank and piston pin is what impresses me. That spells out long engine life and that's awesome. A big Saito 180 for a 1/4 scale plane is about $400 and 24 gal. later that's now $900 compared to $120 if burning gas. That's assuming $4 gal gas and $1 per gal for oil. My last 150 was thirsty so with the 180 sucking more fuel it wouldn't take long to burn a gal. I'm saving about $380 a year on my gasser so in about a yr and a half she's paid for her self.GLOW FUEL IS PRICEY!!!! I still like the sound of a 4 stroke glow about the only reason for liking those besides the power, but I like the sound and power of my DA50 better. Gas is much more reliable and easier to start. I'd also rather have more engine and a better built engine. That's what I got with my DA 50. I had my Saito apart and I can't remember for sure, but I don't belive it had bearings on the crank and piston pin. This is very important to me because of my crash due to blowing the crank pin in my Magnum 4 stroke. I also think the gasser should keep the plane cleaner, especially if I go to 100:1. PLUS YOU GET A BIGGER PLANE! I like being able to fly farther away and still be able to see it. I can't imagine how much fuel a glow engine the same power as the DA 50 would suck. It'd be most likely twice that as the gasser, if not more. Here I was comparing a 1/4 scale plane to a bigger 50 cc class. Why didn't I go gas sooner! Sure you need better servos for the 29% that I have, but most guys with 25% already have servos that'd work in the 29%. The kit cost, the prop, and spinner was a bit more but compared to the savings in fuel it's worth it.

Whew, I guess I'm blogging here. Thanks for those who have made it this far. You have my permission to print this off and hand to your wife or gf. She will now understand that long term cost of ownership far out weighs the slightly more expensive cost of going 50cc gas. She will also see you as a very intelligent man if she doesn't already and this can only lead to good things. In 5 yrs. of flying the savings will pay for the plane. I'm not sure if the airframe will last 5 yrs, but I sure hope everything else does. Those of you going glow could have spent $1900 on a new plane 5 yrs later with the extra money you're spending. That's if your glow engine doesn't crap out on you 2.5 yrs later and the people honoring the warranty don't claim that it died from normal wear.

I'm on a budget and when I moved up to a 50 cc, I did it more for the size increase and performance than the savings. It was pretty expensive for me at first, considering that I had started with 1/4 scale glow on a slightly used 150 4 stroke still in box that I scored for only $50. That was my lucky day. I knew I'd be saving money when I bought my 50cc, but now that I have it I just love flying it so much that I find my self flying much more and feeling good about not spending so much on glow fuel. I love taking only a few tools with me and leaving my heavy field box at home. I wouldn't recommend a newbie to go out and buy a 50 cc gasser!!! Bad idea, wait for a gasser for atleast a fourth plane and I'd recommend a smaller sized one, preferrably around 20cc or so. I've been in the hobby for 9 yrs now starting at 13 and my first gasser, a Giant Aeromaster, I got about 6 yrs ago. I flew it steadily for about 2 seasons and have only flown it off and on after that because the plane is heavy, flies sluggish, hard to start, and with the two wings and struts it was a pain in the keister to setup and take apart. So I quit flying it and stuck with 4 stroke glows, 90, 150, and 70 in order of ownership. My fourth plane after going through three trainers was a GP G202 with the Magnum 90. Than the Aeromaster, than a Dyaflite Supercub, a Seamaster, a Slow Poke .40, a GSP Edge 540, a Morris Hobbies Knife that I built, 4 helis( elec, .30, 2 .50's) over the last 7 yrs, and now the 50 cc 260. After all of those planes the 50cc still got me a bit nervous the first few flights of the second season on her. A gasser is great for someone with experience, but please newbies stick to smaller planes because the bigger planes do a lot of damage if they wreck and if you get your hand in the prop. I jumped to a .90 4 stroke for a fourth plane. Mainly my second as my first trainer a Aircore 40 never flew, my second one a Durastick 40 had three flights less than 2 min( 1st one succesful but only one loop around a track field, second flight tore half the wing in a power line after making one loop around, and third flight straight up a tree because I used a bit too much duct tape and epoxy to fix it from the first crash and I forced it in the air because I ran out of runway. That .46 LA dragged it vertical 20' before it struck a tree branch! LOL. My third trainer had several gallons through it at an AMA field after recieving proper flight instruction. It's still in one piece and after that I only wrecked my Seamaster after a gallon of fuel into a windsock. That thing flew so fast I couldn't even see the windsock that cut my wing and stab in half. That's very similar to my first crash with the trainer, hmm de ja vue? After that I put a Venture 50 heli in hovering upside down without the idle up on, LOL and I've been free of crashes. Hey it happens, but only 3 downed birds in 9 yrs and a lot of flying ain't all too bad, ehh? My other two mishaps, one with G202 ended up with an ear of corn through the wing covering and the fuselage. No big deal, just some patches and the Nexus 30's stripped spur gear was all from mechanical failure, honest.

So what I'm getting at is that I've been around with R/C before getting the 50 cc 260, my most expensive model put together with all brand new parts and it was a pleasure to put together and fly. If any newcomers happen to read my speal about the gas engines being cheaper I know you might want one but please hold off on it. I still fly the the glow fuel Raptor 50SE and the Knife with the Saito 70, but haven't had the Knife out since I finished with college and bought the 260. That 260 and the Rappy is what I like to fly now. The Rappy will likely be flown a lot less now that I have the 260 and the glow fuel being so expensive. I do have plans for a gasser heli in the future, but I think I'll go for a DA100 or a DA150 instead. I want to try a big twin. As far as expenses go, the Saitio 70 still sounds good and is on a cheap plane and a gallon of fuel goes a long ways on that. The 90 4 stroke drinks a bit more, but even that wasn't too bad. Anything bigger than a 90 I recommend going gas. If you are comfy with a 70 or 90 4 stroke, a small gas like a 20cc would be fine and the investment is still affordable. Gassers such as 100 cc+ twins are expensive and so are the planes. I don't know if I could convince the woman that the price is justifiable because I can't even convince myself that. When I buy my gas twin, it'll just be becaues I want it. This is a hobby though and that's why I'm in for fun and just because I want it. The twin won't be budget friendly but it's in the works for next spring or the year after. Yeah it'll still suck less gas than a 100 cc+ glow, but you get my point.

For those that want to save some bucks you really can't beat the 50cc and below class. I like Zenoahs for being a bit cheap, they are a bit heavy though. I think Saito's new gas single is great for those who want a gasser in a 1/4 scale plane instead of a 1.20 sized glow. I'm not impressed with the price though and I'm not sure about how it's built bearing wise and etc.. I think the G26 would be better. I'm impressed with the new knock off versions of the DA50. You get electronic ignition gas with muffler for less than a big Saito 180. I went for the DA because I still don't trust the knock off versions. I know they run good, but I'm more concerned about longevity and felt better spending the extra on a product that has been proven.

I hope I didn't bore anyone too much and thanks if you've made it this far in reading my post. I enjoyed thinking back to my journey through r/c. R/C has been a big part of my life as I've been involved heavily since 13. I spent the weekends at the field instead of causing mischief. Than girls took over a bit at 17, I still found time for R/C just less. I was involved with hobby level gas and elec rc cars since I was 11 so I built up a lot of rc experience handling the controller, fixing, and tuning the engine and I think that's why I advanced quickly with the planes.

So if your a beginner please take it slow. This new plane won't be your first and last if you start out slow and the right way. If you rush into things this could very well be your last plane as accidents happen quickly and death doesn't take much. Never fly towards houses, people, and animals. Small planes cause death and damage. Remember that even with our more advanced rc radios, we still have battery failures and glitches.

I've been fortunate not to ever have a radio failure. I fear my models and keep them far enough away from me incase of failure. The upclose 3D flight is cool, but it is dangerous. Check your model before each flight and check your batteries. Last Mon, before I went out to test the DA50 I noticed that my rudder was coming unhinged. Two out of three hinges were loose. I reglued it and it's been good for the last 5 flights. It scared me a bit and I caught it before I left the house. I don't like the CA hinges in a plane this size. I use plenty glue and there is no way that I forgot to glue them because there was still evidence of glue on the plane and hinge. On my Edge 540, I was about to start the engine when I put my starter on the prop nut(couldn't afford a nice spinner at the time) and I noticed the engine wiggled. That engine was about to fly off with the firewall attached. I ended up pinning the firewall and beefing it up to fix that plane.

Back to where I initially started, glow fueled planes in .40 size and .60 size are affordable and are plenty for newcomers. Wait for that gasser until you have had a few planes and you have enough experience building, setting up a model, and flying. If you are experieced with glow and have had a few aerobatic planes, go for a gas if you haven't already. You'll enjoy the savings!

Al Lewis, the stopper is a gas one and is brown. You were right though, a clogged carb. Probably I didn't get all the gas out of it before putting it away for winter and I worked something loose during the first three flights of the season.

bodywerks, I hope the bad back wasn't from being an A&P. I've had my license just over a year now and yes this is a job that can be rough on the body. I would love to become an inspector sometime if I can't make it to management right away, but that's why I've decided to get into management. Yes, I will lean it out tomorrow. I have been running it at the settings from DA and it's been slightly rich.

robertp17, thanks for the toque specs. I hope your torque wrench doesn't need to be calibrated! Perhaps if you haven't checked it out you should get it checked. I checked a Cummins tool sale torque wrench that I abused slightly. I'd forget to set it back to the end of the scale after using it and it was off by about 30 ft lbs. Wowser! I heard of problems from Cummins so I got a Snap On ft lbs wrench. I still have a Cummins in lbs wrench but don't really trust it. I'm just going to keep everything tightened snugly on my engine. I've heard that the best torque wrenches and the most accurate are ones with the needles. I like the clicker types myself, but it's more personal preference. You're lucky that it wasn't the head or main case. How much was the rear case?

[pipercub123]

disregard this post, it posted twice!

[GremlinX]

My carb bolts backed out of all 3 of my DA50's. I bet they were lose...?

[rcign]

If you're gonna do 8 inch lbs you should at least put some Loctite on the threads....
Hell, I tighten the 2-56s in my ignition backplates tighter than that...
Aluminum bolts are just a little extreme anyway, you can save more weight than that by putting less paint on the fuselage...