What rates do you use when doing rolling circles?

[plaster93]

I miss read also, Im thinkin harrier rolls, yes I can see expo on the low rates, for harrier rolls I like to use the max throw.

[Boulder]

Actually I've just pulled all of my expo out of all of my setups and am learning how to be softer on the sticks. In practicing rollers I've found that needing to move the stick less for a particular movement of the airplane is making me smoother. I am still practicing, not good yet, but moving the stick less distance from side to side or up to down seems to make the timing easier.

[notorious_benny]

I have been harping on the value of tighter springs and lower expo for a while now. I have learnt that anything above 40% expo gives to much of a knee bend in the cuvre. I try to limit my IMAC expo settings to about 35% on all throws except about 40% on rudder.

But then I flew my first two comps with a JR 5 channel radio that didnt even have dual rates, on a model with 3D sized throws. I have learnt to be light on the sticks.

[rcplane]

Cool Avitar Kris.
Did you make it?

[KrisW]

	Quote: Originally Posted by rcplane
	Cool Avitar Kris. Did you make it?

Thanks, rcplane.

Actually, somebody emailed that to me as some sort of joke about a year ago. I got Max to work it into the programming, since it would not fit.

On the subject of low rates and expo, I've found that if I want to do ost maneuvers on low rates, I am using half stick movement anyway, because of the low total throw. Say, for instance, I want to do an 8-point roll. Instead of worrying about whether I am going to roll too fast and miss the point, on low rates, with high expo, it's much easier to move the stick a certain amount for each point, keeping a rhythm going. With planes that can roll very fast, such as my MX-2 (3+ rolls/second on high rates), it's necessary to really turn everything down in order to prevent overshooting points or having problems overrotating snaps because the plane gets wound up so tight.

I use 60% expo on my Medium rate, and the plane, at full deflection, can roll 540 degrees/second, which is very close to scale appearance (most shoot for 360-450 degrees/second). I use this rate for 90% of my flying in IMAC, including all my snaps and vertical rolls. But for the really precise stuff, like rollers and 8-points, I switch to the lower rate and really slow things down a lot.

Rollers are a precision flown maneuver for a LONG period of time. You can't let your control lapse for even an eyeblink, and you are constantly adjusting elevator, rudder, and aileron throughout the maneuver as the aircraft goes through different portions of the flightpath and the tail surfaces affect your roll rate, heading and pitch angle. Throw in some throttle usage at certain times, and rolling circles are the closest thing to a 3D maneuver that IMAC has. when you are sitting there, correcting heading, airspeed, roll rate and pitch for 30-40 seconds. . on ONE maneuver. . it's a constant battle. I find that having it very soft on center really helps me keep from getting the roll going too fast, and makes the roller a much smoother and better flown maneuver. I also have my elevator and rudder very soft on center as well. I can always easily catch up if I need to, but once the plane deviates, it's very hard to hide that from the judges, so I go in soft and try to set things up slowly (except on snaps. . those look like an explosion).

Of course. . I'm hardly the latest and greatest flyer out there. These are just the things I find that work best for me. I'll always have heavy thumbs (Thick callouses and hard hands are not conducive to playing the violin), so this is how I compensate.

[rede2fly]

	Quote: Originally Posted by plaster93
	Question, Why buy high speed servos for$$$ and then slow them down 70% when you can spend less $ and get slower servos and useless expo. Why not learn to fly the center of the stick and have extra stick when you need it? 70 % expo ??? maybe 20% for me. I hate to have to bang the stick when you need throw. Just me.

sorry not trying embarrass, but adding expo does not slow down the servo.all it does is widen the band around netural on the radio sticks. this is done because most people do not move the sticks exactly perfectly up or sideways. so by adding expo, the center of the stick band widens. so when moving the sticks you can be off and not add imputs to the other surfaces. that is all expo does. it has no control over the servos just the signal going to the servos. you still have 100% of the atv.

[MarkNovack]

I fly rollers on whatever rates I happen to be on at the moment, however, I have my expo tuned on each condition (9ZAP) so that the control movement on ailerons around center is close to identical. I allow a little more elevator and rudder around center as the rate increase as I am used to feathering the sticks. I generally use three different conditions with low/medium/high rates, sometimes four. The fourth condition is just like the high rate condition with reduced aileron throw for harrier rolls in which I like to have the aileron burried to concentrate on elevator/rudder/throttle, although the more I fly the better I become at holding the aileron in the roll rate I desire regardless of what I'm doing with elevator. Over winter, I hit the simulator one hour each day and making the transmitter truly feel like a natural part of my hands makes such a difference I cannot start to describe it without jumping up and down to make my point. Maybe its a bit zenish, but it helps me fly the airplane and not the sticks.

It takes quite a bit of practice to get rollers down, inside and outside and inside/outside (the worst until you learn both left and right rollers), but after you arrive, its not much further into hesitation rollers with four points or eight points or just as many little hesitations as you can apply to the ailerons. I guess I would call the latter a jerky roller for which very fast aileron servos are a real help.

I guess my basic point is that rollers are much more dependant on input and coordination than selecting the proper rates. Lastly, I highly discourage setting up a rate where full aileron gives you the slowness of roll desired. In my opinion this can lead to disaster when you may need to roll out quickly to avoid a crash.

Regards,
Mark

[Wayne]

Everyone is different on what they like for rates.
Me personally, nothing changes from my IMAC rates (snaps, spins, rolls, lines) except I go to a slightly higher rudder rate for rollers. Maybe 7 degrees more of deflection.

[cdallen]

	Quote: Originally Posted by madmax
	ailerons & rudder burried, 65% on elevator when learning. Kill rates once you figure it out.

So tell me how to figure it out....