Dueling Showtimes

**Boulder** · 01-12-2006, 07:36 PM

Well the day started like any other, load a plane in the van and go to work

. I was going to meet Temptation at the field, after work, to get a few flights on our Showtimes. Mike called around 8:30 and said he wasn't going to make it, he had some work this afternoon that had to get done. I said to my self, "self", I'm going anyway.

Sooooo, about 1:00 I started looking for reasons to leave the job. Sweet!!! One of the doors is the wrong size, I better go and get the right one, I'll come back tomorrow

.

I had 3 or 4 flights in when my phone started ringing, "Are you still at the field?" Mike asked. I said, "Listen to this", as I proceeded to rev the throttle on my Saito 150...

His response was such that I can't write it in this forum, but you get the picture. "I'm on the way, be an hour or so".

Mike showed up about 4:30, with his Showtime and a friend from work, so I figured, "it's show time"...

I was in the air when they got there, so I played around for awhile and landed to talk with Mike. He was finishing the assembly of his bird, so I waited for him to put his first flight in. He fired it up and rolled to the line, taking off as smooth as always in a slow methodical climb. His flight went as usual, couple of dozen fast rolls in a vertical line, then slid into a hover, finally a little harrier action nice and slow. A few passes later, he came across the field again, snapped into a hover, held it for 10 seconds or so and did a 3/4 throttle climb with rapid rolls on the way up.
At the top came a stall turn, then idled on the down line. At 50 ft. or so, he leveled off and powered up. Shortly after he leveled off, all hell broke loose. The right wing started flapping like a sparrow! Mike yelled, " Flutter!"

Flutter my a$$, the whole wing flapped like a bird. He immediately backed the throttle down and the plane went into a slow spiral. I heard the engine come up slowly and saw the plane level off, by this time he was at the weeds. The plane came up and went between two trees, I thought it was a goner for sure, then he was above the tree line, I said, as calmly as I could, "Mike, you better get that thing on the ground, slowly". I didn't have to tell him that, but I did it out of habit from helping newbies all of the time.

He brought the plane around real slow, just above stall speed and made a perfect 3 point landing. After we did the normal congrats and praises, for the save, we started to look at the plane. I grabbed the wing, to check for damage, and was able to flex one wing half almost an inch, you could plainly see the balsa buckle. When Mike removed the wing from the plane, you could plainly see the ribs, near the wing socket, were broken all of the way down. When the wing flapped it actually broke the ribs past the servo mount.

We couldn't see why the ribs broke, he wasn't flying hard enough to break anything, in my opinion. The only thing I can figure is there might have been a cracked rib at the end of the socket. A small crack is all it would take to start a big problem.

I figured I might as well fly mine and see what happens. So up I went, immediately slamming this thing around the sky. I was going to find out if it is a design flaw or just one isolated case. I'm sure Mike will chime in here and contest to the fact that I put my Showtime to the test. I did everything from full throttle tumbles and flat spins to high speed vertical and horizontal walls. No problems with my bird...an isolated case.

We never did get to shoot the video of "Dueling Showtimes"...another day.

Temptation · 01-12-2006, 08:52 PM

Ken,

Funny story. Too bad it's true. I have nice 3 day weekend coming up and no wings. I just hope Horizon will replace them for me. I looked on their site, they want $83.99 per panel. Can you believe that. I am not going to talk down the plane, because it really is a good plane and a blast to fly. This probably is an isolated insodent like you said. Upon further inspection when I got home I noticed both wings had broken ribs, and one of the aileron servos was stripped out. Now before anybody starts to bust me up saying the servos I used wern't strong enough or the aileron gaps wern't sealed, hear me out. I had JR 4131 servos on the ailerons. These are 90oz. tq. servos. Hinge gaps are sealed. The air speed was not high enough to cause this. The roll rate I was doing was pretty fast, but you are supposed to be able to do this stuff with this plane. Oh well, it was cool that I was able to land it. I have saved my fair share of planes in the past, but never one like this. I had 4 other people witness this event. I am thankful for that, because nobody would ever believe the story. Man, I wish I got it on tape. Let me say this, words can not describe the noise that was coming from that wing when it started to flop around. Very impressive. Infact the whole airplane shook very violently when it happened. I think if I would have taken another 1/2 second for the plane to slow down to the speed it did, it would have exploded in the air. I am kicking myself for not getting video of it. If Horizon dosen't replace the wings, I will put them back on, then fly with the camera rolling. The plane will die a horible death. Ahh just kidding, I really like the way it flies. Horizon Hobby is a great company, and they have always stood behind their products with me in the past, and I am sure they will this time also.

Here's another ironic story. I had a Hanger 9 Edge 540 about 4 years ago. Guess what the wing failed in flight. I wasn't so lucky that time. Ken thanks for sharing the story, I am still laughing at you. "C'mon Mike what are you waiting for get that thing on the ground" Since I didn't know what was wrong at that time, I just kept the plane barely above stall speed until I was able to line up with the runway and set her down for a safe landing. The last thing I wanted to have happen was for somebody in the pits to get hurt. I would have switched on the high rates and buried it in the middle of the field before I let that plane hurt anybody. I would like to remove the covering and get pics of the damage, but I have to wait and see what Horizon wants me to do before I touch the wings. Now remember Ken's plane has been beat 3 times harded than mine was and stayed together. Mine is still new, so I wasn't really being to hard on it. Anyway, the moral of the story is, if you own one keep a close eye on the wings. Go through the root rig and reglue as many joints as you can. I know I will when I get my new set. If Horizon dosen't give me a new set, I will cut some from foam, and shee them with 1 1/6 inch balsa.

Mike Darr

Neogenesis · 01-12-2006, 10:43 PM

Hey Mike,

I can truthfully say I've seen this plane beat 1000 times worse than what your explaining. Imaging a O.S. 1.08 on it flying full throttle, flat and level......then throw the sticks like a blender. I've enver seen a plane wrap up like that. It acctually bent a 4-40 control rod on the elevator. I would ahve to say that it was a pre-existing condition or hopefully a freak failure. I like mine too much to hav to watch it go in. Anyway, keep us posted on what Horizon has to say. Get het back in the air soon.

Neo Out!!!

YaKs are BeSt · 01-12-2006, 11:08 PM

ok neo, I need to see that.

Neogenesis · 01-12-2006, 11:29 PM

I wish I could have said it was me, but it wasn't. One of my flying buddies is nuts......and that plane is no longer in existance. Imagine this.........flat and level, high rate aileron roll...........throw the sticks, she wraps up to the point the it's almost doing stationary pinwheel....the falls off into a flat spin. It was insane. It was the following weekend that the pilot got too cocky and buried it in a cornfield. Now that we have on video. LOL We didn't know what to call it, so it just got called a horizontal blender. BTW...this was without the SFG's in place.

Neo Out!!!!

**Boulder** · 01-13-2006, 05:29 AM

	Quote: Originally Posted by YaKs are BeSt
	ok neo, I need to see that.

Hey Yaks,

These planes are pretty tough, when I was testing my wings yesterday, I did several full power snaps and walls, and I'm running a Saito 150. No problems so far, I don't think I will push my luck by doing those kinds of maneuvers on a regular basis, though,

Huckin' it · 01-13-2006, 07:10 AM

Wow that stinks guys..But at least your being a good sport and staying in the hobby. A guy at my field once told me that if u cant stand having your Big Screen sitting out in the rain all day then you shouldnt get into this hobby. Oh well that was many moons ago. lol

Joe

Doug Novelly · 01-13-2006, 07:13 AM

	Quote:
	I was testing my wings yesterday, I did several full power snaps and walls, and I'm running a Saito 150

Ken, One of these days that thing is not going to survive. Have fun with it while it's still in one piece. Just remember, everything has its breaking point. LOL

Doug

Temptation · 01-13-2006, 11:14 AM

Hey guys,

I talked with Horizon this morning, and they told me to send in my wings. They said if they find that wing failure was a production problem then they will replace them at no cost to me. I had to apply a little pressure to have them send me a box, and shipping tag, but they did agree to do it. Sounds like they are going to stand behind their product. I truely believe that this was an isolated incodent. I was not overflying the plane. I have seen Showtimes get beat a lot harder than mine has. I looked inside the wing through the openings in the root rib, and you can see joints that never got glued. I can't wait to get a new set of wings, because this plane is a blast to fly.

Mike Darr

Doug Novelly · 01-13-2006, 11:21 AM

	Quote:
	this plane is a blast to fly.

Stop It, your gonna end up making me buy one. LOL

Doug

Temptation · 01-13-2006, 11:37 AM

Doug,

I'm not worried about you buying one, because you don't know what you want right now. HaHa.

Mike Darr

Neogenesis · 01-13-2006, 11:43 AM

That sounds like the wings on my H9 Sukhoi. Phonelic not even glued in. Spar webs, no glue, it's no wonder the wing started to fail. I'm glad to see they are standing behind it.

Neo out!!!!

01-12-2006, 07:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
Boulder It's official, thanks Verne... Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Universal City, TX Age: 49 Posts: 10,079 Blog Entries: 3 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 1	Dueling Showtimes Well the day started like any other, load a plane in the van and go to work . I was going to meet Temptation at the field, after work, to get a few flights on our Showtimes. Mike called around 8:30 and said he wasn't going to make it, he had some work this afternoon that had to get done. I said to my self, "self", I'm going anyway. Sooooo, about 1:00 I started looking for reasons to leave the job. Sweet!!! One of the doors is the wrong size, I better go and get the right one, I'll come back tomorrow . I had 3 or 4 flights in when my phone started ringing, "Are you still at the field?" Mike asked. I said, "Listen to this", as I proceeded to rev the throttle on my Saito 150... His response was such that I can't write it in this forum, but you get the picture. "I'm on the way, be an hour or so". Mike showed up about 4:30, with his Showtime and a friend from work, so I figured, "it's show time"... I was in the air when they got there, so I played around for awhile and landed to talk with Mike. He was finishing the assembly of his bird, so I waited for him to put his first flight in. He fired it up and rolled to the line, taking off as smooth as always in a slow methodical climb. His flight went as usual, couple of dozen fast rolls in a vertical line, then slid into a hover, finally a little harrier action nice and slow. A few passes later, he came across the field again, snapped into a hover, held it for 10 seconds or so and did a 3/4 throttle climb with rapid rolls on the way up. At the top came a stall turn, then idled on the down line. At 50 ft. or so, he leveled off and powered up. Shortly after he leveled off, all hell broke loose. The right wing started flapping like a sparrow! Mike yelled, " Flutter!" Flutter my a$$, the whole wing flapped like a bird. He immediately backed the throttle down and the plane went into a slow spiral. I heard the engine come up slowly and saw the plane level off, by this time he was at the weeds. The plane came up and went between two trees, I thought it was a goner for sure, then he was above the tree line, I said, as calmly as I could, "Mike, you better get that thing on the ground, slowly". I didn't have to tell him that, but I did it out of habit from helping newbies all of the time. He brought the plane around real slow, just above stall speed and made a perfect 3 point landing. After we did the normal congrats and praises, for the save, we started to look at the plane. I grabbed the wing, to check for damage, and was able to flex one wing half almost an inch, you could plainly see the balsa buckle. When Mike removed the wing from the plane, you could plainly see the ribs, near the wing socket, were broken all of the way down. When the wing flapped it actually broke the ribs past the servo mount. We couldn't see why the ribs broke, he wasn't flying hard enough to break anything, in my opinion. The only thing I can figure is there might have been a cracked rib at the end of the socket. A small crack is all it would take to start a big problem. I figured I might as well fly mine and see what happens. So up I went, immediately slamming this thing around the sky. I was going to find out if it is a design flaw or just one isolated case. I'm sure Mike will chime in here and contest to the fact that I put my Showtime to the test. I did everything from full throttle tumbles and flat spins to high speed vertical and horizontal walls. No problems with my bird...an isolated case. We never did get to shoot the video of "Dueling Showtimes"...another day. __________________ Ken Thompson Fellowship of Christian Modelers http://www.fcmodelers.com *Team Black Magic* http://www.customairframes.com *Team DragonFire* http://www.dragonfirecustoms.com

01-12-2006, 08:52 PM	#2 (permalink)
Temptation Lawn Dart Pilot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lenox Twp. MI, United States Age: 34 Posts: 1,062	Re: Dueling Showtimes Ken, Funny story. Too bad it's true. I have nice 3 day weekend coming up and no wings. I just hope Horizon will replace them for me. I looked on their site, they want $83.99 per panel. Can you believe that. I am not going to talk down the plane, because it really is a good plane and a blast to fly. This probably is an isolated insodent like you said. Upon further inspection when I got home I noticed both wings had broken ribs, and one of the aileron servos was stripped out. Now before anybody starts to bust me up saying the servos I used wern't strong enough or the aileron gaps wern't sealed, hear me out. I had JR 4131 servos on the ailerons. These are 90oz. tq. servos. Hinge gaps are sealed. The air speed was not high enough to cause this. The roll rate I was doing was pretty fast, but you are supposed to be able to do this stuff with this plane. Oh well, it was cool that I was able to land it. I have saved my fair share of planes in the past, but never one like this. I had 4 other people witness this event. I am thankful for that, because nobody would ever believe the story. Man, I wish I got it on tape. Let me say this, words can not describe the noise that was coming from that wing when it started to flop around. Very impressive. Infact the whole airplane shook very violently when it happened. I think if I would have taken another 1/2 second for the plane to slow down to the speed it did, it would have exploded in the air. I am kicking myself for not getting video of it. If Horizon dosen't replace the wings, I will put them back on, then fly with the camera rolling. The plane will die a horible death. Ahh just kidding, I really like the way it flies. Horizon Hobby is a great company, and they have always stood behind their products with me in the past, and I am sure they will this time also. Here's another ironic story. I had a Hanger 9 Edge 540 about 4 years ago. Guess what the wing failed in flight. I wasn't so lucky that time. Ken thanks for sharing the story, I am still laughing at you. "C'mon Mike what are you waiting for get that thing on the ground" Since I didn't know what was wrong at that time, I just kept the plane barely above stall speed until I was able to line up with the runway and set her down for a safe landing. The last thing I wanted to have happen was for somebody in the pits to get hurt. I would have switched on the high rates and buried it in the middle of the field before I let that plane hurt anybody. I would like to remove the covering and get pics of the damage, but I have to wait and see what Horizon wants me to do before I touch the wings. Now remember Ken's plane has been beat 3 times harded than mine was and stayed together. Mine is still new, so I wasn't really being to hard on it. Anyway, the moral of the story is, if you own one keep a close eye on the wings. Go through the root rig and reglue as many joints as you can. I know I will when I get my new set. If Horizon dosen't give me a new set, I will cut some from foam, and shee them with 1 1/6 inch balsa. Mike Darr Last edited by Temptation; 01-13-2006 at 11:38 AM.

01-12-2006, 10:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
Neogenesis Down Low..Too Slow..DOH!! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Findlay, OH Posts: 1,012	Re: Dueling Showtimes Hey Mike, I can truthfully say I've seen this plane beat 1000 times worse than what your explaining. Imaging a O.S. 1.08 on it flying full throttle, flat and level......then throw the sticks like a blender. I've enver seen a plane wrap up like that. It acctually bent a 4-40 control rod on the elevator. I would ahve to say that it was a pre-existing condition or hopefully a freak failure. I like mine too much to hav to watch it go in. Anyway, keep us posted on what Horizon has to say. Get het back in the air soon. Neo Out!!! __________________ Fly it like you stole it!!!

01-12-2006, 11:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
YaKs are BeSt The Burgur Lifestyle is kickas Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: TEXAS Age: 19 Posts: 473	Re: Dueling Showtimes ok neo, I need to see that.

01-12-2006, 11:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
Neogenesis Down Low..Too Slow..DOH!! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Findlay, OH Posts: 1,012	Re: Dueling Showtimes I wish I could have said it was me, but it wasn't. One of my flying buddies is nuts......and that plane is no longer in existance. Imagine this.........flat and level, high rate aileron roll...........throw the sticks, she wraps up to the point the it's almost doing stationary pinwheel....the falls off into a flat spin. It was insane. It was the following weekend that the pilot got too cocky and buried it in a cornfield. Now that we have on video. LOL We didn't know what to call it, so it just got called a horizontal blender. BTW...this was without the SFG's in place. Neo Out!!!! __________________ Fly it like you stole it!!!


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01-13-2006, 07:10 AM	#7 (permalink)
Huckin' it On the Deck! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 54	Re: Dueling Showtimes Wow that stinks guys..But at least your being a good sport and staying in the hobby. A guy at my field once told me that if u cant stand having your Big Screen sitting out in the rain all day then you shouldnt get into this hobby. Oh well that was many moons ago. lol Joe __________________ They say im pretty fly for a white guy

01-13-2006, 11:14 AM	#9 (permalink)
Temptation Lawn Dart Pilot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lenox Twp. MI, United States Age: 34 Posts: 1,062	Re: Dueling Showtimes Hey guys, I talked with Horizon this morning, and they told me to send in my wings. They said if they find that wing failure was a production problem then they will replace them at no cost to me. I had to apply a little pressure to have them send me a box, and shipping tag, but they did agree to do it. Sounds like they are going to stand behind their product. I truely believe that this was an isolated incodent. I was not overflying the plane. I have seen Showtimes get beat a lot harder than mine has. I looked inside the wing through the openings in the root rib, and you can see joints that never got glued. I can't wait to get a new set of wings, because this plane is a blast to fly. Mike Darr

01-13-2006, 11:37 AM	#11 (permalink)
Temptation Lawn Dart Pilot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lenox Twp. MI, United States Age: 34 Posts: 1,062	Re: Dueling Showtimes Doug, I'm not worried about you buying one, because you don't know what you want right now. HaHa. Mike Darr

01-13-2006, 11:43 AM	#12 (permalink)
Neogenesis Down Low..Too Slow..DOH!! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Findlay, OH Posts: 1,012	Re: Dueling Showtimes That sounds like the wings on my H9 Sukhoi. Phonelic not even glued in. Spar webs, no glue, it's no wonder the wing started to fail. I'm glad to see they are standing behind it. Neo out!!!! __________________ Fly it like you stole it!!! Last edited by Neogenesis; 01-13-2006 at 12:19 PM.

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