FREESTYLE -VS- 3D ???

[Colonel Klank]

For Hire:
Live Rock Band with the following:
Fireworks, bullwhips, cheerleaders, cake with girl popping out, bullhorns, chinese acrobats, beer truck, noisemakers, etc.

I did see some amazing things this year like the "Figure Eight, Rolling Harrier" at the DLM and Qui Que doing some amazingly creative things with just his rudder. After witnessing these routines, I look forward to what comes next.

[madmax]

3W ROCKS!!!


Oh sorry, wrong thread.

[Jeff Pfeifer]

I vote for Artistic Aerobatics.

[TimDavie]

Creative things with the rudder......that reminds me of a trip in the old days to Tijuana.....

[madmax]

My 2 cents... 3D, and adrenalin pumping aerobatic flying is why we're all here. This style is what brought be back into the hobby after an extended absence, and is what continues to make me dream with anxiety of the next trip to the field. Most of you know, I'm a huge fan of rudder bashin', 40 grit sanded, 45 degree aileron and counter balances, and all of the excitement that goes along with it. I'm also a fan of safety. I've doinked the ground countless times in flight, and slooooow and immediate landing always follows - and every modeler I've ever met takes the same precautions.

Anyways, BTW, all personal opinion, freestyle = 3D, to music - always has been. Criteria is whatever the particular contest states... as... well, criteria.

Trends change time and time again.. Right now the trend seems to be focused on the "precision" elements. Most of the top dogs will tell you that 3D stick bangin' is easy, flying 3D with precision is where the boys separate from the men. Seriously, I have all of the XFC pilots on tape answering this exact question . I still don't get it personally, but I think as the discussion continues, and trust me it's been alive and in the forefront this past year, I think the criteria will adapt.

Madmax's suggestion to the folks considering judging criteria for '07 - add 2 new elements - height flown (higher score=lower flight), and overall wow factor, to the scoring sheets.

Until then, I'll continue to enjoy, and respect the skills of any and all 3D pilots in modeling. 3D flight is the only thing that keeps me commin' back for more.

Good discussion!

Best -- MD

[TheTank]

	Quote: Originally Posted by jongurley
	It amazes me,, that alot(and you guys can vouch for me,and I am not trying to piss anyone off, but I am making a generalized statement) of the people that complain and pis and moan over 3d and freestyle can't even do it,, that goes for young and old and pro or not,,, don't hate a man for having the testicular fortatude to torque roll or do a rolling harrier and srubs the tail,,, I am seeing alot of Jealousy,,,,,

If your referring to my comment, definetly not jealous. I just dont agree that it takes any "testicular fortitude" to perform a torque roll. I could torque a full tank of gas through my Yak and barely have to make any inputs... its just not hard with a big airplane. A .40 size glow plan, it might be a challenge, but not with a big boy. Rollers on the deck, thats a different story, I gotta admit I love doing rolling harriers right on the deck, thats just me, but as for torkin, it bores the **** out of me, thats just my opinion.

[as722]

	Quote: Originally Posted by TheTank
	I honestly dont care if a freestyle is low or not, but at the same time, I dont want to see a precision sequence to music. You have got to mix it up between precision and 3D that is in time to the music i believe. Do I want to see 3 of the 4 minutes of the routine that are point rolls to music? Hell no, but you see alot of this. I like to see a wide variety of manuevers, whether its a rolling harrier loop or a one roll-roller. I just want to see that a pilot is well versed in all areas of the flight envelope. Only other thing I can say is, I might have to smack the next person I hear cheer for a torque roll during a freestyle.... my eyes just about glass over every time I see one... anyone flying at that level should have no problem torkin it, its harder to fly a perfect 0 of 8 than a torque roll.... I think the current freestyle guidelines need to be revised because the current criteria is starting to turn the freestyle to a precision to music part fo the event... not what I want to see. I love precision, but I believe the freestyle should be a freestyle... whatever you want, mixed to music with the airshow feel to it.

John I agree 100% but you forgot to mention the four minute rolling harrier marathon that is now common at free style events. I guess I'm old school but I enjoy a well balanced precision / 3d free style. The torque rolling for four minutes is lame as is touching the ground with the rudder.

Albert

[wizard]

I guess I will throw my 2 cents in. I enjoy watching a well balanced program - 3D with precision, set to music. A well choreographed routine is a pleasure to watch.

Scoring, I say lets take a lesson from some other sports. When a pilot gets ready to perform he has to give the judges a list of 10 maneuvers that he or she is going to perform during the routine. For each maneuver assign a starting score from 1-10 based on difficulty. Each maneuver is scored individually by deductions from the perfect starting score. That score will be 75% of the total score for the routine. The other 25% will be based on overall artistic performance.

Remember, this is what I like to see, not what I am able to do.

[YNOT]

Ohhh I like that idea Wiz.

[hillmanr2]

yet another good thread. I'll also through my 2c in. It's seems kinda weird to me that their are two camps but I can also see the issue. IMAC rules have to be set for no tail touches or else it would open the door for unexperienced pilots to cause a problem. I agree with the hovering and torque rolling on the deck being kinda boring. I know how much skill it takes to do it, cause I can, but it gets old fast when talking about the best. If I can do it, then they should be able to with ease. What shocks me is the lack of rolling vert figure 8s and other very hard maneuvers.

I am also somewhat surprised by the high altitude that some portions of free are done. I think they should put a 500 ceiling, a 2' hard deck and make the box smaller. Then everything is up close, better for spectators and may keep everyone happy.

[RED]

Im my opinion, you have to have both. I know guys that do rollers and hang it on the prop inches off the ground and can't fly a sportsman well. Everything looks rough. I can do almost all manuvers at 100 plus feet, there is enough room to account for small errors and keep your nerves at bay.
You need a mix... that is what makes it so tough.
Shootout quality patterns to music mixed with low, tail touching, heart pounding stuff.
Putting together a 4 minute that includes both and transitions well is difficult.
PS - I believe you should be able to touch the ground, just not extra points for doing so. Anything less that 1 foot is good as a touch as far as Im concerned.

[jongurley]

Point taken guys, no harm intended,,,, , all I am saying is just do away with the criteria and make it a true freestyle,, Let the judges judge,, If someone wants to put on a show with all 3d low and scrubbing the tail, then score them high,, if someone in the same freestyle contest has a more graceful flying sequence and stays high, but he flys well to the music, and it is matched to the music, then score him just as high as the 3d guy, and viseversa, I am saying just don't limit a guy who wants to scrub the rudder,,,