3D electric indoor plane - questions

[Kuba]

Hi

Rencently i've become an owner of 3f esc and other "electric" stuff.
I'm planning to fly 3D, but my latest attempts with foames (especially Bipe's) weren't succesful. I don't feel good with such models, mainly because i've always been flying on big, massive glow trainers. In february i've had nice aerobatic foam (wing with ribs and symetric profile) and flying with that was simple and pleasant.
Now, when I try to fly 3D foams, i can say that comparing to the old one i don't feel such models at all.

My objective is flying 3D on a gym, but i don't see myself doing it with foam plane, so i want to build a small funfly of balsa.
Here is what i got:
ESC TowerPro 15A - 22g
Hitec Superslim 8ch reviever - 25g
1x hs-55 - 8g
2x Conrad es-05 - 2x8g
2s1p 1250mAh E-tec 8C - 56g

This equipment is rather heavy, but right now I won't get anything lighter. I'm planning to buy TowerPro 10A esc, which weights 8g and, when i collect enough money, small reciever like HFS-05MS, but that won't be soon

I wish to make a model between 20"-28" wing span that will fly 3D well including hoovering.

Now i have questions:
1) The best solution for me would be plans of good flying 3d balsa aircraft. If You have some or know names of models I'd be happy if U told me
2) The other way is building my own, unique plane. If i choose this option i have to face many problems:
a) Which profile (i want it to be slow, but it also has to hoover nicely)
b) Parameters of profile (length, height)
c) Main proportions of model (I want wings to be between 60cm[24in] and 70cm[28in])
d) Stabilizer's sizes
e) (optional) I have no engine and I'll have to make one. y Lipo's can give no more than 9A. Any suggenstions about props, thrust?

I know that my questions may sound silly, but these are the things i must know before doing anything


Thanks for Your replies

[F3AFlyer7]

Probably the best 3D balsa aircraft are the new Fliton Edge and Extra.

To be honest with you, any type of balsa model will not fly indoors as well as a foam plane for 3D, that is, unless you are flying in a very large building. The fact of the matter is that you just can't get a balsa plane light enough to float around and be easy to fly in a small space.

What are the foam aircraft that you have tried already??

The reason I ask is that usually a biplane has a lighter wing loading giving it the ability to fly slow and float well, making it easier and better for 3D. There are also some very nice monoplanes out that will fly the same if they are built properly (Strong, doesn't twist, LIGHT). Such planes are: FOAMY FACTORY Yak, Extra, Edge; IKARUS Yak, Extra, Edge, Superstar; GREAT PLANES Reflection
Bipe, RCU Bipe.

Those are all planes that you may want to give a try if not already. If you keep them in the range of 6 to 7 ounces, even 8 or 9 with the biplanes, they should fly amazing.

Hopefully this helps a little. I honestly think that you won't like the indoor balsa plane.

[Matchless]

Kuba, I don't want to deflate your project, however I don't believe you will have much fun with the equipment you've indicated trying to fly indoors. There are several small built-up balsa birds which 3d well (using some of the gear you mentioned), such as the Skeeter from BHRC.
However, I believe you will find very quickly (especially if you are not already 3D proficient) that the wing loading of a balsa built-up bird of that size (around 10-14ozs) will be very uncomfortable for flying in most typical indoor facilities, especially for learning 3D

If you really want to fly indoor, take the plunge, and buy some proper lightweight gear. Most indoor foamies have between 250 and 500 square inches of wing area, and weigh from 6-10 ozs. At that size, they can comfortably be flown in a typical 1 court basketball gymnasium. The Shockflyer series are always good flyers for indoors.......

Good luck and have fun!

[EVOL]

these guys are right Kuba. just buying a popular 3D plane wont make it easy to get out there and just start torque rolling right off the bat. However, if you do want to get some basics down i would suggest 2 optoions:

1. Try getting a simulator (not quite real but it will help with the stick movement and save you a few bucks in the long run from repairing or replacing damaged planes).

2. Buy a Shock Flyer and proper equipment to set it up. Keep it around 7oz and buy a few sheets of extra foam to trace the pattern onto. if you crash it........cut a new one out for $5 and go again. There are a ton of threads on this site about foam 3D planes and equipment.


the best advice i heard was actually from Biff (cough) to a new 3D pilot.

-you have to learn how to use the rudder.this is 30 times more important if you are going to fly indoors. you have to be comfortable making turns with rudder (not ailerons and elevator). get good at flying in a park with natural boundries to pretend you are inside. the infield of a baseball diamond or a tennis court work well.

- then make sure you are comfortable flying and turing your plane in both directions. dont fly so that you are always making the turn in the same direction. get used to flying left and right patterns (again using rudder turns).

- then see if you can do it inverted. same pricipals listed above.

by this time you sould have some pretty good skills down to really start "thowing the sticks". it seems like a lot but it is a great alternative to wasting money trying to mix match gear and throw it into a plane that will fly horrible (i have tried it). keep an eye on the swap shops and ebay for some deals on e-flight gear.

EVOL

[Kuba]

I feel quite messed up :/ I thought that balsa model will be more precise for 3D.

It seems that i have to say "sorry" to foam ;]

Actually i have no money to buy lighter equipment. The only thing i can count on is lighter esc, but it is also not 100% sure.

Which foam will U propose? Bipe or normal one? I have 4mm depron (actually it's a fake of depron, but i can't get anything better in my country). The problem is, that my foam is cut into 0,5x0,5m sheets (normal sheets are about 0,5x1). This is a problem, especially when it comes to wings

[Boogie]

hmmmmm. let's see. As I told You before You'll have to come up to my house so I can help you build a foamy. As far as equipment is concerned wouldn't it be easier to buy a 3 cell Li-po pack and fly outside??

Remember: You can always ask me about those foamies.

[rz22g]

You might check the nemesis 3D. Its balsa profile fuse with balsa built up wing. Flying weight is about 6 ounces. I have not had the chance to try it indoor yet. I am not proficient with 3D. I can hover some and do some uncontrolled harrier rolls.. meaning it harriers and rolls but basically goes where it goes

Unfortunately its only availble for a limited time at m-a-e.com as a bundle but if you want to try it out you might talk them into selling you just the kit. I have the plans so you might be able to cut your own pieces and make one.

I think the equipment you listed might be a bit on the heavy side though for this plane.

[JohnnyKatana]

sometimes balsa models are much more precise [i.e. 35% or larger] than foamies. but the fact of the matter is faomies are light and very stable at low speeds therefore making them easier to fly indoors. unless you pull a leseberg and hover your 35% inside which id personally love to try.