[bigalrc]

Thanks for your response Dan. Right now I'm practicing 3-D flying and getting comfortable with all the maneuvers with a dw yak foamie. I have read the flight trimming charts , but it seems to me that on an upline if your rudder is off slightly you could get the same results. Not to argue against the charts it just seems to be a fine line between slight thrust and slight rudder problems. So I was looking for different ways to distinguish between the two.