Personally, guys just staying low and flying the same manuevers over and over again is boring. The freestyle with music adds the need to connect the manuevers and make the whole routing fluid. When I watch them, thats one thing I love - the tranistion from one manuever to the next and how they use the music to accent what they are doing in the air.

Sure, let people touch the ground but I wouldn't give extra points for it. The crowd will love it which will draw more spectators but in the end with pilots at the level of the TAS, that's not really that difficult and its not even innovative - just watch the 3D videos posted here on this web site. It's NOT NEW - it gets boring after you see it 5 times in a row.

The music changes the pace from routine to routine. The music flown to also shows a little about the pilots personality I think and really shows off their flying styles.

Give me the freestyle routines any day over a hover/torque roll fest.

We need a paradigm shift... We need to change how we view Model Aerobatics..
We need to STOP seperating 3D maneuvers from Traditional maneuvers... they are ALL Stunts. And ANY STUNT done with precision, when you want it, where you want it is hard.
Some day... pilots will sit around the campfire and one will say to the other.... "Remember when those Candy-Ass Girlie Boy fliers tried to keep 3D Maneuvers seperate from traditional maneuvers?".... (Refers to 3D'ers AND IMAC'rs that insist on the seperation!!!) Write this date down... in a few years... the IMAC schedule will include what we now call 3D maneuvers... this is the only way we can move forward... the only way to break out of the limitation we currently IMPOSE on ourselves... Open your mind... IT IS ALL GOOD and ALL CHALLENGEING!!!

ALL STUNTS ARE HARD IF PRECISION CRITERIA IS APPLIED WITH THE SAME VIGOR TO TRADITIONAL AND 3D!!!!

(Though.. there needs to be some way to encourage the "On the deck" antics in a freestyle!!!)

So your saying anyone who doesn't agree with your definition of freestyle are "Candy-Ass Girlie Boy fliers?" Sorry, I don't think so!
You have your way of looking at it, and others might disagree, but it doesn't make them wrong.
You keep trying to change things into what you want, nothing wrong with that either, but you might start with the your brothers on the Cirkus crew and try getting it off the ground there first, your a moderator there, not here, and being a smaller site you could have better results.
I personally think it would work better as a stand alone event, once you get a scoring system in place.
But seems like the scoring is the bottleneck in the whole thing.

Good luck

Originally Posted by Tailchaser

....So your saying anyone who doesn't agree with your definition of freestyle are "Candy-Ass Girlie Boy fliers?" ............

Um... no... (Tongue-in-Cheek)

'Some day... pilots will sit around the campfire and one will say to the other.... "Remember when those Candy-Ass Girlie Boy fliers tried to keep 3D Maneuvers seperate from traditional maneuvers?".... (Refers to 3D'ers AND IMAC'rs that insist on the seperation!!!) '

My definition of "FreeStyle" is along the lines of the TAS Promoters....
I think they say something like....
".......demonstrates the entire flight envelope..........."
or along those lines.... My main point is 3D is (or could be) a SubSet of Freestyle...

(And that 3D should properly be flown with precision and not sloppy)

Well....i typed this in the old "QQ VS KYLE" thread............and i'm too friggin' tired tonight to re-type anything. ............



"I couldn't agree more with that qoute!! I beleive "freestyle" should be exactly that!! Anything goes....if you touch.....WHO CARES as long as it is not indangering other people. another words...it's "freestyle" with rules......then why is it called freestyle? in freestyle MX ( as in xgames) anything goes...you do it at your own risk! i think the rules in the "freestyle' should be looked at and changed accordingly to what THE PUBLIC wants to see. quit thinking "old stlye" and let the NEW GENERATION step in!!


I have never taken anything away from QQ......in this hobby he is one of my hero's for sure. And from all the video i have seen of him , and listened to him talk.......the guy sounds like the nicest and most humble world champion i have ever heard in ANY sport or hobby. I put my vote down for kyle.......at the time , i was supporting the hometown boy , and i wouldn't take it back........but man , at the same time , i felt guilty just for voting in the first place............


I mean really......if there is any guy i would like to meet/fly with it would probably be QQ.........he's a class act!!


Jeff

I think that maybe if you could video yourself doing what your describing we could better understand what kind of freestyle your looking for.
Then tell us all how to score it.......like I said, that is the problem with what your suggesting, like a lot of posters are trying to tell you.

your twiting my words. I can't explain it better than what i wrote above.


And no matter how you do the judging , if you touch , i think it should be allowed. As long as you are not endangering the public or other flyer's in the process ,then WHY shouldn't it be allowed.?? I don't think actually touching the ground would improve your score............but it should definetly NOT take points away from your score if you touch the ground , and least of all , it shouldn't score a "0" if you do.


as far as the video "Tailchaser" ........maybe your hinting that I can't do any of those things? Well........as far as hucking the airplane around , i do pretty well, and i do it control with out in-dangering the public , myself or or damaging my airplane. I think there is a lot of guys who can do the same thing and don't compete. we're maybe not as fluid as those big named guys are , but we have fun seeing who can drag the tail on a harrier. I would love to shoot a video , but with it being in the 30's here and with some snow on the ground , winter is just getting bad here. I doubt i'll be able to fly until spring.

your reply bugs me.........


how could i tell you "HOW" to score it?.........that's what i thought this message board was for , talking and debating on matters like this one, smarta$$. and one more thing , as i have read through this entire thread , i see it as a mixed bag , not one sided like what you are stating.


Jeff

Hi Jeff, Some how your getting the impression that my statements were directed directly toward you, they were not.
I was trying to point out some of the scoring problems to Mike and asked HIM to do a video,(Kind of tongue and cheek) of Freestyle and how to judge it.
Sorry if you took it as directed towards you, wasn't my intent.

Chuck

aahh..ok. sorry if i took that personally. It sounded like i was the one getting called out here or something , when all i was doing was giving my opinion. No offence taken Chuck...........peace!!


Man...until i read this thread , i didn't realize how seperate the two camps were "3-D/freestyle" and "IMAC/precission" was. I get a little crap thrown my way at the feild from the older guys , saying that i'm "Crazy" for flying low and throwing my plane around until the wings are ready to dismember themselves from the fuse. but then again , i give them crap for flying really high with full throttle , and their knee's are knockin'.HAHA!!


But when it comes right down to it....it's all in good fun and i enjoy flying with those guys. I just get bored quick , which can sometimes get me in a little trouble , but i have only wrecked 1 plane so far do to a "dumb-thumb" , which i know i'll do again , but i was havin' a blast until that happened.


The judging in the big competition's is out of my realm , and I haven't been into the hobby long enough to give a correct opinion. But for myself , and the way i like to fly. I like wringing it out a little. BUt i do want to learn the precission type of the flying.

I Think we should add another camp: EXTREME HARDCORE 3D, where everything goes period.

That i can totally agree with SAS.........an anything goes class , touching the ground , flying the limit's and protect the women and children type flying......love it!

Originally Posted by snap a saurus

I Think we should add another camp: EXTREME HARDCORE 3D, where everything goes period.

So we could call it "Air Show" competition...

works for me!!!

We could hook up perspiration and Blood pressure monitors to the judges and base the scores on that!!!

Hi guys!

I personally like Freestyle the smooth way, why? because it tell's more about the skills of the pilot for making a coreography, and I'm not telling that the guys who loved to get down and dirty don't have skills, because they have them for shure, but 3D for me, should be a complemet of freestyle. A good FreeStyle routine should be done by the book, and making it that way it can smash a well done 3D manouvers routine. Yes, 3D is a perfect complement at the moment of performing a FreeStyle, but the pilot, as a good FreeStyle'er should know where and when to ad the 3D stuff. You can make all 3D in a safe way but, after 2 min. you are going to get bored of seeing the same manouvers. Another thing is that, a pilot should pick the right music, why?, in the music is where all start.

The Fans, yeah the fans go to a show to see some nasty stuff and some crashing, but the Fan's are not judging the routine, and they are not paying for your plane, if you get asked to make a routine by the book, then make it by the book, use all your skills to perform it in a safe way, to use all the box, to know when to add some safe 3D manouvers, and then you will be scored well. For me touching the ground should be a 0, why?, because you are supose to know that you can't touch ground, so if you know it, why you still doing it? Yes you can make a torqueroll 3' from the ground, or 1 inch from it, but for the judges, who are the one's that are taking the score, is the same! Oh! but how can I score if the plane touches the ground? It is no way of scoring that, it is the same. If you can make it 3' from the ground well with that you are telling the judges that you have the skill of touching the ground if you like, and should be in-off. Remember that control is all about.

Safety First! You can't compare the Xgames to this, it is not the same tool, a plane can kill a fan, a bike or a skate only can hurt you. You can go Wild and start making a lot touch and go's, but you don't know what is happening inside the plane, and if for a reason a link get loose, or the rudder brakes because of the time's you touched the ground, and if for bad luck something happen during a manouver and the plane hit's a fan, or another person...Who's going to pay for that? The hobby will pay for it, and then 0 IMAC , 0 3D, 0 pattern, etc. We can't afford that, that's why safety should be first.

This is only my opinion
Ramon L.