Hello all,
This is my first true "glider" I have been fooling with a electra lady for a few years now and wanted a bit more performance. I built a Spirit 100 and have a JR9303 radio. I am having trouble understanding the butterfly function and when it's used. I thought it was for landing but the guide I am following makes it sound like you have it on all the time. Can anyone simply clue me in please?
Kind regards,
Rick

You Mean Crow?

Here! Lol...

RC Sailplane with Crow (2 min 1 sec)

There are two schools of thought on this, as witnessed by the difference in the 11XZero glider programming and the 11X sold by Horizon. On the 11XZero there is no way of turning off the butterfly function except by eliminating it entirely and using the program mixes to duplicate something along the lines used by the 11X sold here.

Personally I prefer to be able to turn it off until I’m ready to land. It is too easy to unknowingly joggle the spoiler stick out of place and have the flight shorten inadvertently.

The way you can make it selectable is to zero out the Pos0 rates and set up select conditions for the Pos1 rates in the Butterfly menu.

Allan

So is Butterfly a minimized crow condition? It sounded like they wanted the ailerons to reflex with the flaps (Opposite to crow) to put washout in the wings to keep the aircraft stable on the High Start...
RP

It may depend on what region one comes from but I used the terms interchangeably and sometimes use the phrase "brake system". It all depends on which transmitter I’m addressing. On the 9303 the function list has it as "butterfly". On the 12X the menu, it is "brake system". On the 11X it is "landing mode", and that one is really a misnomer as the menu is not a mode but rather a system of mixes. Normally I prefer crow as it is more descriptive. Whatever it is called it’s a means of dropping the flaps and raising the ailerons to increase drag and reduce lift. On a thermal duration plane, crow is used primarily for landing precision. It may be set up and used differently on a slope plane. I can’t say as I fly thermal exclusively. Really good slopes are hard to find in my neighborhood.

On launch if the wind is not blowing, I drop the flaps a bit and the ailerons as well but not as much. This will increase the lift of the entire wing. But with ailerons dropped less than the flaps you will still have washout. If you haven’t launched a full house sailplane before, it would be a good idea to get help from someone who has. On launch, the ailerons are useless for controlling the aircraft heading. You have to use the rudder. I had a Spirit 100 sometime ago. That plane got really squirrely if too much camber or reflex was used.

Allan

It has been a long time since i flew gliders, mostly just slope flying and racing. So i am curious what the best or most common way to set up a modern radio for a full house 6 servo glider these days. And i have a JR11X so i would like to use that. I assume I would have the "crow" function on throttle stick. I assume I could have 3 flight modes, one would allow crow, another for lift conditions with camber either on a 3 pos. switch or throttle stick, another for snap flaps for acrobatics or slope racing. One of my fuselages has a motor so I don't know how I should operate that. Any advice would be welcomed.

I spent the last hour reading my manual for the 11X and all I can say is WOW! What a great set of features. So i guess all I need is a list of what switches/levers/sticks are being used for each function from someone (not me!) who has a clue. I always prefer to start with a working setup from a knowledgeable pilot and learn and personalize my setup from there. Thanks

If you talking about a pure sailplane and not a pure glider, you will probably need three modes. The 11X can support up to five flight modes. The modes I use for a sailplane are launch, cruise, and landing. You can have and I have used all five flight modes, one extra for reflex (or speed) and the other for thermal. But I have gotten away from using all five as remembering the switches positions was too much work.

One major reason for each mode is that the elevator, flap and flaperon trims are always mode-based. And when you set a trim while in a certain mode, the transmitter remembers it. The aileron and rudder trim can be either common to all modes or mode-based.

The trims you use for launch will be quite different from cruise. And having a mode for landing, you can disable the spoiler stick until you ready to use it. It is easy to jog the spoiler/throttle stick and not notice it. The cruise mode is for everything else.

The 11X sold by Horizon has somewhat different programming from that sold to rest of the world, especially for GLID. For the most part, IMO, it is an improvement. Several places it isn’t. The so-called Landing Mode menu label is one. It is not a mode but a system. On the 12X it is the brake system and on the 9303 it is the Butterfly menu. Since our 11X already has one item called Landing Mode, there is no flight mode with that name. On my sailplane and motor gliders, I re label one of the modes to be landing.

Allan

Thanks for that, I am beginning to "get it" and will probably use all 5. Launch will have a throttle on the left stick, Cruise will be straight controls no mixing for general flying and acrobatics, Landing will have crow on the left stick, Speed will have snap flaps, and thermal will have camber on one of the side levers.

If there were more sailplane flyers reading this forum, you would most likely be remonstrated for wanting both the throttle and landing system on the left stick. Every time I’ve written about doing this, I ran into a flood of criticisms. I’ve implemented it on my 11X and it works fairly well. The main problem with doing it is that the default stick motion for braking is opposite to the normal throttle control. I reversed the motion for the braking system but that in turn required reversing the throttle and the throttle stick warning. In the end I got low throttle and no brake when the stick was all the way back and the warning works as expected. But the programming was a hassle.

Most would recommend you put the motor on one of the sliders. I wouldn’t recommend that unless you couple it with a switch to cut the motor off. Controlling the motor with only the slider is hazardous as there is no warning for the slider and the slider is out of sight.

If you want to put the braking system on one of the sliders or a switch, it can be easily done on the 11X. Whatever device you select for the AUX2 channel in the Device Select menu, will be the controlling device for the brake system (a.k.a. landing mode).

Allan

I dunno, I would like to use the transmitter the way it is intended to be used but I would want butterfly to be off at high stick and throttle off at low stick. That is what I'm used to and changing that could be hazardous! I definitely want butterfly on the throttle stick. I don't mind using a switch for throttle and a 3 position switch would even give me a mid throttle position. I would not use a slider for throttle, i will use throttle hold for safety. I guess a botched butterfly landing could be dfficult to go around from set up they way I imagine it, I'd flip to Launch mode with the stick in whatever(?) position and it could get interesting. Maybe better to just have it on a switch and be able to throttle up in any mode. I expect to fly the E Typhoon at my local flying field as well as my local slopes. Thanks for your help!

It is not unnatural for the 11X transmitter to have the brake system set to deploy by pushing the stick forward but it can be for the pilot. You’ll notice that the last menu on the GLID system list is for reversing the flap stick direction. Just pretend that you are in a landing situation where you switching between running the motor and operating the brake. Your left hand will be very busy if the brake-off and the motor-off positions are on the opposite ends of the stick travel.

I’m not using this system presently. As I’m using the motor only for launch, I’ve taken it off the left stick and use a combination of slider and switch. The set up would be more useful if you are using the motor during the flight, such as with a hotliner. If you are interested in how I had it set up with both butterfly and motor on the left stick, I can post it by the end of the week.

Allan

No need, I'm going to put the motor on a switch for now, maybe try the L slider in the future. I want Crow to be off at top stick. I also have a slope fuse for the Typhoon so I'll set it up the same way. One question, would you still use the Gear channel for throttle, but just assign it to a switch? And assign one of my flaps to the throttle channel? It seems like that is the way the transmitter wants to operate, in launch mode it wants to use gear for throttle (FYI it is a 7 ch Rx). Thanks

It would be a good idea to use a combination of slider and switch from the start. On your first flight you will probably not want to launch with a WOT until you have the plane properly trimmed. Also, the slider can be set and not used. You can use the motor hold switch for turning the motor on and off.

The delay in the MOTO SYSTEM menu applies to the motor hold switch in the SW SEL submenu and not to the [DEVICE] in the Device Select menu. If you make the [DEVICE] and hold switch the same, the delay function doesn’t work correctly. You will have to use the SERVO SPEED menu to have a smooth transition between motor speed changes. If you don’t do this and your ESC can’t be programmed to ramp throttle changes, you risk throwing a prop blade with abrupt changes in motor settings.

If you just set the GEAR to ACT and not MOT, you’ll still have to make some provisions for the motor setting transitions.

Allan

OK great I follow that. I do have a Castle Creations Pheonix 80 and I will program it for softest start, i will definitely figure out a slow start for that big prop. I will set the Device menu to GEAR MOT and use the throttle hold as just that. We do use the hold switch to start and stop the motor on helicopters so I am familiar.