why the rudder input on the downline....??

I just do a downline left roll.... with some throttle ratcheting for fun and then suddenly input right rudder and down elev... in addition to the left aileron... all high 3D rates of course.... once the flat spin is a turn or two in.... center the ailerons..... a few more rotations... and then center rudder.. (Hold the full down elev) add power and fly away inverted.....

Originally Posted by Mithrandir

I just do a downline left roll.... with some throttle ratcheting for fun and then suddenly input right rudder and down elev... in addition to the left aileron... all high 3D rates of course.... once the flat spin is a turn or two in.... center the ailerons..... a few more rotations... and then center rudder.. (Hold the full down elev) add power and fly away inverted.....

Thanks for the great explanation. I'm getting ready to try this and found it very helpful. Recently learned flat spins and KE spins so feel ready to point the plane straight down with power (gulp!). H9 30% Carden Extra 300

beware the Blender breaks planes.it is real hard on the tail of the plane,broken vertical stabs,elevators,counter balances.
all of these I have broken at one time.

Originally Posted by Mithrandir

why the rudder input on the downline....??

I just do a downline left roll.... with some throttle ratcheting for fun and then suddenly input right rudder and down elev... in addition to the left aileron... all high 3D rates of course.... once the flat spin is a turn or two in.... center the ailerons..... a few more rotations... and then center rudder.. (Hold the full down elev) add power and fly away inverted.....

I'm not saying put rudder on the downline. I do it just like you. I'm talking about transitioning from inverted flat spin to an upright spin.

Originally Posted by Mithrandir

why the rudder input on the downline....??

So it will snap? According to the Wamsy video on the previous page the 'Snap Roll' portion of the maneuver is what makes it a Blender. @ 1:08 secs into the video he even terms it the 'Blender Part' of the maneuver. Everything else is 'entry' and 'exit'. Without rudder it's just an aileron roll ninety degrees down under power?

Unless this maneuver is like the Lomcevak, where there once was a 'standard' way it was performed by Ladislav Bezák and then it morphed through individual interpretation to where rarely any two pilots fly it the same way?

I'll guess I'll Google around a bit and get a consensus of how it's done. Right now I think the snap is what gives it visual appeal and makes it look 'difficult' which, if flying it real time is anything like the sim, it isn't.

Originally Posted by closetguy

beware the Blender breaks planes.it is real hard on the tail of the plane,broken vertical stabs,elevators,counter balances.
all of these I have broken at one time.

My plan is to start at low throttle settings and work my way up. If the plane breaks then I need to get a stronger one as this style of flying is where I'm going. After seeing that plane wrap around itself during KE spin at WOT, I'm hooked. Will definitely proceed with caution though!

I cannot find a logical reason to abuse my $3000 plane in such ways. I will stick with traditional flying.

it's just with the throttle on is where it begins to get fun.the more you let it spin on the down the more throttle you add,thats where things start to break.i don't do them like I use to with WOT and let it spin as fast as I could get it on the down.i never lost a plane doing this but have landed with just one half of hoz.stab and elev. gone.

Sounds like you need a "beater plane"

I agree with you though, Bob. I love putting my Edge through the ringer, but I do cringe when I think hat this is my pride and joy. But for me, that's where the excitement and fun is.

Foamy and mith: you do not need any rudder on the downline prior to the blender. Mith is correct. Howeve, foamy, you are right in that you will need rudder during the actual blender. The OP is incorrect about slot feeding in rudder. You want to apply a quick full rudder then push to full down a split second later. Then flatten out that aileron.

Think of it as the sticks neutral on a downline. You will want to make a "C" shape with the right stick, and push the left stick hard right.
Left aileron, right rudder (hold that aileron still), down elevator ( hold that rudder and aileron still) then neutralize aileron to slow rotation.

This is How Quique describes it on Blaine Austin's site:
use this technique, full down elevator, full right rudder and full left aileron, this is the best sequence too. This sequence needs to be done continuously, this means as soon you reach full down you go right rudder and as soon you get with the rudder to full go with the aileron

what about how you make a knife edge spin?

Downline, left rudder, full or close to full down elevator. The aileron depends on the plane. Some like a little left aileron, others like it neutral.

For KE spin my Extra wants full power, full down elevator (3D rate), a touch of left Aileron and some left rudder. It seems left rudder is the most sensitive if it will be successful. I have to start at full 3D rudder and ail but both have to be taken out or it seems to tumble. Once it locks in I am at barely any left Aileron with small bumps to keep it on KE and about half the rudder I used to lock it in. For me, locking it in is the hardest part. I usually do it from a left hammerhead as I am still learning the maneuver and that is a great way to get comfortable with it. Once it locks in and starts spinning around the axis, it is very impressive and fun. I can't hover or harrier very well yet so I just point the nose down and pull out or exit inverted level flight like a flat spin

Originally Posted by bobzilla

I cannot find a logical reason to abuse my $3000 plane in such ways. I will stick with traditional flying.

Ha!! ChickenZilla!!!

he he he he...

so borrow someone elses $3000 plane to abuse!!!!

lol

bluck, bluck, bluck!!! yours maybe????????