You'd think. I destroyed the cable testing it... then discovered same behavior with other cables. Oof.

Well said Steve Graham!

Originally Posted by Steve Graham

What was the C rating on the A123 batteries? Digital or analog servos? What many people continuously fail to understand is that digital servos draw a maximum peak current any time they start moving even if the load on the servo is very low. Hyperion sells some small LifePo4 batteries that have very similar chemistry to the A123's. The smaller ones are rated at only 5C. That means that at only 11 amps for the pair you've come close to the maximum continuous C rating of the cell. Add in any potential voltage drop across a dirty switch plus the .7 volts you drop across a forward biased diode and you are treading treacherously close to low voltage on the RX. I have run Hyperion LifePo4 3800 mah batteries rated at 20c in parallel into both JR and Spektrum powersafe recievers for years without incident.

I would say the statement "nothing but lockouts of Spektrum stuff" is an inaccurate reflection of reality. The number of Spektrum users is huge. Even if the failure rate is well within reasonable tolerances the number can seem quite large as the vast majority of people using Spektrum successfully will never post. Between the normal failures which even Futaba suffers, shhhh don't tell the fanboys, and those related to improper setup it's easy to draw conclusions not supported by any reliable evidence.

Speaking of generalizations I usually try and avoid them but lately it's become painfully obvious that there is a "pile on" mentality lately with Spektrum and JR products that is a lot like children finding a common target and bullying him for no better purpose than sport. Once again this crap is NOT supported by a preponderance of the evidence. Contrary to the oft voiced plea that it's all good natured ribbing a close reading of the threads tells a different story. Further this type thing is actually causing economic harm to a company that in my first hand experience has one of the best customer support records in the industry and does much too support all of us.

At our club we fly giants and heli's using JR X9303 and X9503 Spektrum DSMX radios. We use DSMX and DSM2 protocol Spektrum powersafe receivers. Batteries we use are either Li-Ion's, Li-Po's or A123's. This has been going on now for 3 years with no loss of signal on anyone's equipment. Several aircraft are using IBEC's from Tech-Aero and other people building IBEC's. Again no loss of signal or aircraft. This isn't opinion just fact based statistics at our club. I will say though that had I bought a new radio and Rx and had the very first plane crash flying it with a lockout or whatever it would have left a nasty taste in my mouth too. It may have made me Futaba today instead of owning a JR product!

However if JR keeps it up with the toy like transformer chevrolet barn owl looking case designs with total abandonment of DSMX, I probably will move away from JR with my next transmitter purchase. As of right now I don't own telemetry but I will soon enough. I'm eyeballing a Futaba 18MZ, a JETI and even looking hard at the new upcoming Weatronic BAT 60. In my opinion JR is just f_cking themselves to death in the USA. They need to rid themselves of their new teenage kid case designer!

Originally Posted by Jedei120

However if JR keeps it up with the toy like transformer chevrolet barn owl looking case designs with total abandonment of DSMX, I probably will move away from JR with my next transmitter purchase. As of right now I don't own telemetry but I will soon enough. I'm eyeballing a Futaba 18MZ, a JETI and even looking hard at the new upcoming Weatronic BAT 60. In my opinion JR is just f_cking themselves to death in the USA. They need to rid themselves of their new teenage kid case designer!

I guess beauty truely is in the eye of the beholder. I don't like the looks of the new JR transmitters either. I also didn't like the fact that JR threw me under the bus with regards to all my DSM2 and DSMX gear either. While I'm sure the JETI transmitter is a fine product with many wonderful features, if we were rounding up people that designed ugly transmitters, the designers of that beast would be public enemy #1. As for the 18MZ, everything is beautiful about that transmitter, except the price tag. Guess I'll have to stick with my DX18. It continues to support all my current gear, has all the features I need and the price is pretty reasonable too. To me, it looks OK too but then, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I didn't mention the DX18 but it would certainly fill the DSM(X) bill! I feel almost certain all new JR radio designs will be DMSS only leaving the customer to the existing X9503 and 12X for DSMX. Future JR case design will look like who knows what? Right now the whole new JR business scheme ain't looking good.

Originally Posted by MaceH

So... some useful information to share. If an rx and satellite are binded, and the satellite does not respond on powerup, the rx will not run the servos. This could happen in the air if voltage sags or rx reboots for that and any other reason, resulting in NO control of the plane. Yuck. I have two flaky satellites to send out for repairs or replacement- either of these plus a marginal power supply = likely loss of airplane.

I don't think it works that way. Only on a start up, if a satellite does not respond the receiver wont let the servos respond. It is a excellent way of telling the pilot there is a problem, don't take off.

If a satellite fails in air, the receiver will continue to service the servos. If you have a logger or telemetry you will be able to see on it that a satellite has failed.

Originally Posted by RCToon

I don't think it works that way. Only on a start up, if a satellite does not respond the receiver wont let the servos respond. It is a excellent way of telling the pilot there is a problem, don't take off.

If a satellite fails in air, the receiver will continue to service the servos. If you have a logger or telemetry you will be able to see on it that a satellite has failed.

I agree.

Lemme clarify- a power sag and return of the power to the rx should be no different than any other reboot of the rx's signal processor. If that happens in the air, and it then doesn't detect a satellite that was working on takeoff...

Just sayin. Use reliable power to prevent that possible (IMO) failure mode. I'll bet this failure mode is really rare but could account for some 'inexplicable' crashes.

Originally Posted by Jedei120

At our club we fly giants and heli's using JR X9303 and X9503 Spektrum DSMX radios. We use DSMX and DSM2 protocol Spektrum powersafe receivers. Batteries we use are either Li-Ion's, Li-Po's or A123's. This has been going on now for 3 years with no loss of signal on anyone's equipment. Several aircraft are using IBEC's from Tech-Aero and other people building IBEC's. Again no loss of signal or aircraft. This isn't opinion just fact based statistics at our club. I will say though that had I bought a new radio and Rx and had the very first plane crash flying it with a lockout or whatever it would have left a nasty taste in my mouth too. It may have made me Futaba today instead of owning a JR product!

Uh, that misquote of what I wrote is annoying... I said "nothing ABOUT lockouts" not 'nothing but lockouts'.... big difference.

Yep, methinks this thread has mostly confirmed that all is fine with DSM2/X and we don't have crap. I come home after flying and say 'hmmm, twenty+ flights today, 1.x gallons, and my Spektrum/JR crap was flawless AGAIN- what gives'? LMAO.

I'm still wanting to hear other's negative experiences- there is value in those methinks.

Originally Posted by MaceH

I agree.

Lemme clarify- a power sag and return of the power to the rx should be no different than any other reboot of the rx's signal processor. If that happens in the air, and it then doesn't detect a satellite that was working on takeoff...

Just sayin. Use reliable power to prevent that possible (IMO) failure mode. I'll bet this failure mode is really rare but could account for some 'inexplicable' crashes.

Ah! see what you mean.

I can report that a Futaba flyer had a crash of a really nice large scale plane from signal loss.

Cracks me up when folks say they don't need redundant power or Powersafe rxs with Futaba because 'Futaba just works- you don't need that stuff'- yep, battery was flopping around in the fuse. Had the guy had any sort of redundant power, he'd still have his plane.

I cannot recommend strongly enough that redundant (not just dual batteries, but something to isolate them from each other) power saves planes and is worth pursuing. Yes you are adding complexity and points of failure but you are removing a huge single point of failure.

Originally Posted by MaceH

I can report that a Futaba flyer had a crash

My club had one too last week, on the second flight of the day the guy yelled " no control, I don't have it" the plane soon thereafter hit a barn.

Originally Posted by 5150flyer

My club had one too last week, on the second flight of the day the guy yelled " no control, I don't have it" the plane soon thereafter hit a barn.

Yep, stuff happens.

I wasn't running down any Futaba users with my previous post... sorry for any offense. I sure WISH our stuff was so reliable we could say 'it just works'. Normally, well, it does. All stuff has failure modes though.

What was root cause of the crash?

Originally Posted by MaceH

I can report that a Futaba flyer had a crash of a really nice large scale plane from signal loss.

Cracks me up when folks say they don't need redundant power or Powersafe rxs with Futaba because 'Futaba just works- you don't need that stuff'- yep, battery was flopping around in the fuse. Had the guy had any sort of redundant power, he'd still have his plane.

I cannot recommend strongly enough that redundant (not just dual batteries, but something to isolate them from each other) power saves planes and is worth pursuing. Yes you are adding complexity and points of failure but you are removing a huge single point of failure.

Uh, maybe going out on a limb here, but I suspect ANY system would fail under the circumstances you described above. It's not a "signal loss" when the battery is "flopping around in the fuse," that's a power loss due purely to poor setup / installation. Nothing whatsoever to do with whether its Futaba, Spektrum, JR, or any other system.

Originally Posted by tl3

Uh, maybe going out on a limb here, but I suspect ANY system would fail under the circumstances you described above. It's not a "signal loss" when the battery is "flopping around in the fuse," that's a power loss due purely to poor setup installation. Nothing whatsoever to do with whether its Futaba, Spektrum, JR, or any other system.

Yep, exactly.

Oh, I see what you mean. DOH!