Originally Posted by Quique

A detail....but important. Flex Innovations it is owned by David, Dan and my Self.....
Thank you Jim for the interview!...I did not have idea it would make the front page!...you surprised me.


I think our hobby needs to follow what it brings to us: fun and joy. This is why it is our hobby right?....so we cannot slow down our entire hobby (fix wing) because some competition class does not accept E stabilization. In general innovation or new visions goes in front of competition rules. In fact in many cases origins of rules are to filter those innovations. Decisions about competitions rules are made by specialized organizations and I fully understand and respect their decisions.
I retired from competition 7 years ago and my perspective today to the hobby it is different. Today my perspective is wider. Using well designed flight controllers will bring great benefit to all pilots from beginners to the most expert ones. The excitement will go higher, the flight envelope will go greater. It will be MORE FUN!
Wishing you guys a great beginning of the flying season :-)

Just discovered this thread and I will say up until about a week ago I was absolutely like some of the naysayers that I did not like Gyros. This was with my limited experience with a couple of AS3X BNF models that felt like I was not in control.

After watching Quique at Nall flying the new Bipe at the 3D line, the more I watched the more intrigued I was. He is super smooth even without a gyro but you could tell that he was still making flight corrections and still "flying" the plane the whole time. The third time I saw them down there, I talked to David for some time at first being skeptical. After seeing how it aids but does not take over the pilots control I will be ordering one to try very soon!! I'm all about having fun and could care less about competition. Looking forward to giving one a try.

Originally Posted by terryscustom

After watching Quique at Nall flying the new Bipe at the 3D line, the more I watched the more intrigued I was. He is super smooth even without a gyro but you could tell that he was still making flight corrections and still "flying" the plane the whole time. The third time I saw them down there, I talked to David for some time at first being skeptical. After seeing how it aids but does not take over the pilots control I will be ordering one to try very soon!! I'm all about having fun and could care less about competition. Looking forward to giving one a try.

CRAP! I was there but missed Quique flying the Bipe. I wish I had seen him.

Originally Posted by terryscustom

Just discovered this thread and I will say up until about a week ago I was absolutely like some of the naysayers that I did not like Gyros. This was with my limited experience with a couple of AS3X BNF models that felt like I was not in control.

After watching Quique at Nall flying the new Bipe at the 3D line, the more I watched the more intrigued I was. He is super smooth even without a gyro but you could tell that he was still making flight corrections and still "flying" the plane the whole time. The third time I saw them down there, I talked to David for some time at first being skeptical. After seeing how it aids but does not take over the pilots control I will be ordering one to try very soon!! I'm all about having fun and could care less about competition. Looking forward to giving one a try.

Terry, if we weren't 500 miles apart you could have a pull on my Pilot Edge with a Demon Cortex anytime you wanted. I think you'd like it. You never feel like your not in control. I'd bet if I didn't tell them, most people would say man that thing flys great, and never know it's there.

There is a stigma attached to using them that other pieces of technology don't suffer from. No one thinks bad of you for using Expo or mixing, or even dual rates for that matter, but when they hear gyro it's "He's a witch, burn him!"

Some of the guys at my club seem to think gyro means auto pilot. I hear a lot of "Oh, well he's got a gyro" when I'm flying. Like that should somehow dismiss everything I do. The best part is, they even do it when I'm flying my other planes that don't have gyros.

I never hear that from good pilots. They are usually interested and ask questions. It's the ones that can't do anything but fly in circles that say things.

Originally Posted by theKM

dang, I had an idea for that thing

Send me an email:
danny@demonaero.com

Danny

I agree with those that say gyros are cheating.

And what about the new breed of wimps that don't build their own airplanes!?!? Our field is full of cheating bastards that are flying huge pre-built airplanes and they believe they have accomplished something! Where is the accomplishment if you just show up with a big ass plane you didn't build?

We have guys at our field that will do a nice smooth slow roll right down the center-line of the runway, but if you look carefully, those same mothers have got expo dialed in! Where is the skill in that?

I remember when mixing became available. I told 'em if you don't stop this right now you're going to have folks doing knife edge passes with mixing. The art of precision acrobatics will be all but dead if you don't ban control mixing ASAP.

Adjust sarcasm to taste.

My first post in 8 years. How am I doing?

Bill

Awesome job Bill...!!!

Scott

Darn cheaters

Originally Posted by wjvail

My first post in 8 years. How am I doing?

Bill

LOL... I love your style!

1 word to describe this: Absofreakingmavelous!!!

Originally Posted by wjvail

I agree with those that say gyros are cheating.

And what about the new breed of wimps that don't build their own airplanes!?!? Our field is full of cheating bastards that are flying huge pre-built airplanes and they believe they have accomplished something! Where is the accomplishment if you just show up with a big ass plane you didn't build?

My first post in 8 years. How am I doing?

Bill

Cheers Guys. I didn't really stop by FG just to stir the pot. I stopped by to see what the state of the art was in fixed wing gyros.

I've been flying helis some lately and of course there are about 50 FBL controllers to choose from. Some of those have functionality that can be adapted to fixed wing but I though I'd see what you guys have to say.

I was hoping for a discussion of the pros and cons of some of the units currently available. I was a little caught off guard by the discussion of whether or not using a gyro was really flying - whether or not it is cheating.

Bill

It seems to always turn that way when the 4 or 5 guys that are experts in their hobby decide to extol their disciplines upon others, whether we want it or not.. LOL

I say to each their own, and to each enjoy the hobby their way. The key word is "HOBBY", which is something you want to do, not something you have to do.

My friend actually made a gyro himself out of a multicopter flight control system. it does everything that most other Gyro's do for 20 bucks in parts. Kinda cool actually, but for me, I purchased 2 of these Aura FC8's to play with as an added facet to this Hobby. Unfortunately I have not compared them to any others, since this is the first Gyro I'll be using in over 38 years of flying.

On another forum, Tbrum tested the Igyro 3e vs the Demon Cortex, he provided his impressions on both.

Bamdfisher: http://rccanucks.com/showthread.php?...ll=1#post18758

Tbrum: http://rccanucks.com/showthread.php?...ll=1#post18826

Originally Posted by wjvail

Cheers Guys. I didn't really stop by FG just to stir the pot. I stopped by to see what the state of the art was in fixed wing gyros.

I've been flying helis some lately and of course there are about 50 FBL controllers to choose from. Some of those have functionality that can be adapted to fixed wing but I though I'd see what you guys have to say.

I was hoping for a discussion of the pros and cons of some of the units currently available. I was a little caught off guard by the discussion of whether or not using a gyro was really flying - whether or not it is cheating.

Bill

Originally Posted by wjvail

Cheers Guys. I didn't really stop by FG just to stir the pot. I stopped by to see what the state of the art was in fixed wing gyros.

I've been flying helis some lately and of course there are about 50 FBL controllers to choose from. Some of those have functionality that can be adapted to fixed wing but I though I'd see what you guys have to say.

I was hoping for a discussion of the pros and cons of some of the units currently available. I was a little caught off guard by the discussion of whether or not using a gyro was really flying - whether or not it is cheating.

Bill

Bill, the Demon Cortex is a popular choice that most people seem to like, l know I do. There's also the Powerbox i-gyro and I think JR came out with one too.

i love my gyros. can i fly without..yes. but with the non stop wind around here i like to have some wind buffering. i fly for fun and if it helps keep the plane in one piece so be it. i have one of the best flying planes out right now but its so light and the fuse is so tall it gets beat in the windy pretty good. i have been flying them in heading hold but feel like they are flying me. so now im going to turn them on rate mode and lower the gain just so they do some wind buffering and i can get back in control. every plane i own has a gyro now. i dont need it but i can relax and enjoy the little flying time i get now

Originally Posted by N726AC

Me. me, me !!!
Shall I PM you my address?

Tony, I haven't heard anything from you. ...did the cortex I gave to you get delivered safely?

Originally Posted by Cryhavoc38

Question.
3 axis stabilization for Heli's is now an accepted norm in competitions such as the XFC, but why not for planes?

The argument I am hearing is that it reduces pilot work load and allows the plane to be flown crisper and cleaner and not a true representation of the pilot's skills

But doesn't it also do these things for Heli's?

For the record, I wouldn't support the use of 3axis stabilization for imac and pattern. Just wondering why its ok for Helicopters but not for planes at certain competitions

Digging up an older post as this question has come up a few times in thread I see and not answered. i happen to fly both gas airplanes and gas helicopters (I cant be the only one here who does?) so I'll take a stab at it.


3 axis stabilization for heli's (known as flybarless or "FBL") is in some ways the same, but in others very different from planes. Helis are inherently unstable... you have probably heard the analogy that learning a simple hover is like learning to balance a ball bearing on an upside down salad bowl. Its true. Because helis are unstable they HAVE to have a stabilization system of some sort to be flyable by mortals... Before 3 axis gyros they had mechanical stabilizers in the form of the flybar. So to some extend the FBL gyro is just replacing a mechanical system with an electronic one.

(technically you can fly a heli with no flybar and no gryo... its called NOBAR and scale heli guys used to do it for the look, but its supposedly ridiculously hard to do and just flying basic scale circuits that way is a real accomplishment)

OTOH, FBLs do stabilize far better than any flybar does so it really does take a lot of load off the pilot and open the door to all kinds of advanced maneuvers for the 99% that before where the domain of only the 1%. But even with the heading lock stabilization its not like they fly themselves... Hovering still takes skill to find and maintain that neutral point... but it will still drift a bit if you let go of the stick. Difference is with a flybar it will drift and start to roll/pitch unpredictably... with FBL it will just drift. (I have flown both flybar and FBL)

In helis the FBL gyro had another huge advantage - it removed a lot of mechanical complexity, weight and power robbing drag from the head. Kits are simpler, easier to build. This is double edged as it takes a lot of the building and setup skill out of the game, but it makes repair cheaper and reduces parts cost.

There two factors led the FBL gyro to go from a curiosity to total market dominance in something like 5 years. flybar kits are nearly extinct.

But yet there is still controversy... Some dont like them and there is lots of discussion about which gyro feels most "flybar like". It does reduce some skill and is not yet legal in all competition... most but not all. FAI F3C precision heli aerobatics is still flybar.


Oh one other comment - FBL gyros are heading hold, but they dont all self level... Only certain models have that as an option (Demon, IKON, some skookums and a few newer ones). Self level is generally considered a crutch and I dont know if its competition legal... even if it where nobody would use it as the effect would just fight you all the time. However for sport flying self level and bailout is like gold. I fly the demon with the bailout., aka "oh #(*&$#" switch... If you dumb thumb and are heading for hte weeks just a flick of the finger has you upright and punching out... saving a $500 repair bill... This is priceless for practice and has helped me push and progress far faster than I ever would have the guts to without it.



Having said all that, I never yet have tried a gyro in my planes.... Dont see a need but I wont rule it out.