Without reading any other post, I am giving my reply.

Freestyle is the only ticket into growing this hobby/sport of competitive R/C airplanes. It has crowd appeal, can be put on TV and TV brings money.

Lets face it, people go to the old TOC, TAS and Toledo to see the free. At TAS as much as you, Bob, told the crowd to stick around and watch the flying, it was like the curtain shut and 90% of the crowd left. As it has done at TOC for years and any other contest that a free was held.

Just becasue that is the way we have always done it, does not mean we can not do it differently in the future. We are using 10+ year old rules, doing things with airplanes, many people did not think was capable years ago.

Look into the FAI Artisic Rules. They want routine that goes with music that uses all the flight area. Height of the plane should not be a factor. Set a hard deck. The flow of the show should be scored. The show the airplane and pilot put on. In artistic the known was a song, every pilot flew to the same song and then you had rounds where you flew to your song.

We could throw the current judgging critera out and go with something else. Think skateboard, freestyle BMX, figure skating or dancing.

QQ does a 2 roll horizontal figure eight and to me and a few others, that is DAM impressive, however to the "crowd" a low knife edge would have more WOW factor and should score higher.

The Free should be exactly was it is called, a freestyle. How ever that free is presented is how it should be judged. In most of the free's I have seen this year, pilots get locked into a trick and/or a style of flying and yea its impressive, however at some point in time, do something else! MIX IT UP BABEEEE!

Freestyle events should be stand alone events. You can have your pattern and IMAC stuff and those can stand alone, however if you, and I do, want to see this stuff grow, the pattern stuff is a buzzkill to the people who come out to see the pilots huckit.

It's time to orginize a whole new event/show.

Wow good thread!

I prefer down an dirty but there is NO good quanative way to score it.

The rules are what they are an whoever follows them the best will win.

If you make a new set of rules where you get X amount of points for various parts of the plane touching the ground Im sure you would see guys doing that too. Also you would see many more piles of sticks on the ground.

My thoughts? That while down an dirty is more exciting the current system probably is the most fair at combing excitement while demanding large amounts of skill that can be fairly judged.

I think I''ve figured it out , they would be separate events. For the Freestyle, a Barbara Streisand medley would set the tone for the event. The pilots could not fly lower than three Karma levels , high alpha maneuvers would be banned. The judges should wear long white robes hold hands and sway to the music, when the pilot does something pleasing, they would hold up lighters and say, "Oooohhhhmmmm" and the spectators would sit cross legged and take deep purging breaths until they passed out from boredom.At the end of the competition each pilot would have his energy read and the pilot with the fewest interruptions in his aurora would be recognized as the winner

For the 3D competition , the pilots would have to fly a plane worth at least 10 grand and not more than 6 months old. They could not fly over 100'' high or 20 mph and would be required to incorporate fire into their routine in some manner . The judges would have bull horns to whip the standing crowd into a frenzy while a live rock band played and improvised to the pilot and plane. And when any part of a plane touches the ground , dancing girls would pop out of a cake and set off fireworks . Everyone in the crowd ( over21) would chug-a-lug a Budweiser,yell "Whoooo-hoooo" at the top of their lungs and high five the person next to them. At the end of the competition each pilot would choose a dancing girl to represent him in a mud wrestling competition to determine the winner. And no one would remember or care who won because they had such a good time.

Originally Posted by POWERPLAY

For the 3D competition , the pilots would have to fly a plane worth at least 10 grand and not more than 6 months old. They could not fly over 100'' high or 20 mph and would be required to incorporate fire into their routine in some manner . The judges would have bull horns to whip the standing crowd into a frenzy while a live rock band played and improvised to the pilot and plane. And when any part of a plane touches the ground , dancing girls would pop out of a cake and set off fireworks . Everyone in the crowd ( over21) would chug-a-lug a Budweiser,yell "Whoooo-hoooo" at the top of their lungs and high five the person next to them. At the end of the competition each pilot would choose a dancing girl to represent him in a mud wrestling competition to determine the winner. And no one would remember or care who won because they had such a good time.

Ahhhh, you have been to a Pro Bro event.

I honestly dont care if a freestyle is low or not, but at the same time, I dont want to see a precision sequence to music. You have got to mix it up between precision and 3D that is in time to the music i believe. Do I want to see 3 of the 4 minutes of the routine that are point rolls to music? Hell no, but you see alot of this. I like to see a wide variety of manuevers, whether its a rolling harrier loop or a one roll-roller. I just want to see that a pilot is well versed in all areas of the flight envelope. Only other thing I can say is, I might have to smack the next person I hear cheer for a torque roll during a freestyle.... my eyes just about glass over every time I see one... anyone flying at that level should have no problem torkin it, its harder to fly a perfect 0 of 8 than a torque roll.... I think the current freestyle guidelines need to be revised because the current criteria is starting to turn the freestyle to a precision to music part fo the event... not what I want to see. I love precision, but I believe the freestyle should be a freestyle... whatever you want, mixed to music with the airshow feel to it.

Originally Posted by TheTank

Only other thing I can say is, I might have to smack the next person I hear cheer for a torque roll during a freestyle.... my eyes just about glass over every time I see one... anyone flying at that level should have no problem torkin it, its harder to fly a perfect 0 of 8 than a torque roll.... .

AMEN.

Damn Wayne, glad I looked before I posted my response to Tank, cause thats exactly what I was thinking.
To see a guy hover...or TR for 1/3 of their freestyle is getting REAL old, like it was said in an earlier post, you can see that from most 14yr olds at your local field.
Now to use a hover in transition to another move within your music freestyle flow is very entertaining. To those that think it's boring, try it, these guys just make it look easy.
I keep seeing in my mind the cost factor, and this hobby is by no means cheap so to put a plane you have not only big bucks on the line not to mention the time spent setting the plane up, to me is too high a price to pay to make a few others happy.

Chuck

Wayne, in your first post, I got the impression that you think there are harder more complex moves than a 0 of 8. Did I miss read, or did you bump your head.

I didnt even bring it up because only a select few (Biff) can execute it.
He laughs at the inverted X-Box 0 of 8.

Brings a tear to my eye.

All of the sudden 3D is the ugly stepchild? No dicipline? Too easy? Boring?

Let me tell you, 3D is the only reason I got back in this hobby after being absent several years. It was cool at first but now that a lot of people are doing it, then the elite guys start whining that it is too easy....try flying a straight line, now that is hard!!

If you got all the 3D moves down perfect, then you can think up some more. If you can't, then string them together in a better way. I am the first to admit that I learned a lot of 3D maneuvers but I need to do a better job of stringing them together. That's why I like 3D. There's always room for growth.

The same can be said for precision or freestyle. If you ask me, the best routine is one that mixes 3D and precision moves and flows together. AND WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH DOING IT LOW? If no one can see your plane up in the stratosphere, does it even exist?

Wayne, I apologize in advance, but it hurts me deeply to hear you say that your beautiful Carden 260 is not even set up with 3D throws. I know the reason, I just can't accept it.

3D FLYING IS NOT THE ENEMY!! Warbirds are.

Originally Posted by aviti

Wayne, I apologize in advance, but it hurts me deeply to hear you say that your beautiful Carden 260 is not even set up with 3D throws. I know the reason, I just can't accept it.

LOL.

I still have my 87" Yak that pretty much only gets flown on 3D rates.
(it just hasnt gotten flown a lot lately)

IMHO.... Freestyle is broader then 3D.
Freestyle says... "Show me EVERYTHING the plane can do"... including 3D stunts.
The fact that it is competition means... "It better be precise and not arbitrary"..
3D is fun to fly, but it is more interesting to see the whole mix. And MORE difficult to do the whole mix...
and... IMHO.. just because it is "3D".. does not excuse it from being precise...
I would rather see a inverted harrier with wings level, no rocking, constant altitude, uniform speed etc etc etc... most criteria applied to traditional maneuvers can (and should) be applied to 3D stunts.. (IMHO!! LOL)
I personally have a hard deck of 24 inches... the last 2 feet is just not worth rebuilding a rudder and/or servo/rack!!!

Number 1 requirement.. it has got to bring a SEG to the face of the pilot!!! (These are toy airplanes remember!!??!!)

Originally Posted by Wayne

LOL.

I still have my 87" Yak that pretty much only gets flown on 3D rates.
(it just hasnt gotten flown a lot lately)

OK, I feel a little better then...

What about the airplanes? Is there any reason it has to be a "scale" plane? The scale airplane is holding back the manuverablity.

Different divisions for different planes. Different size planes.

This will also help expand on the aircraft design. Back in the TOC days, there was reason to push airframe design, today there is zero.

There are several designers out there who are pushing it, however very few people know.

Flying Giants Unlimited Freestyle Championship? An open event allowing anyone to enter flying their preffered aircraft.

I am really wanting to do something going to the next level with a Free contest. I know in another thread I brought up about a similar contest.

I have had more than a few people ask me about this, whos up for it?

How about a group of us, who are interested in this start running with the ball.

Figure some rules, figure the classes, put on a show, shoot it for video, sell it to ESPN, get Red Bull to sponsor it, quit our real jobs and go fly for a living.

Rules? There you go again YNOT!!!