I run my Opti 2 at 114 to one. I just make sure there's a straight jacket and some duct tape for when Me, RTK, and Pat have a fly day together!!!

Originally Posted by jack strickland

I heard that DA no longer reccomends lawn boy. Thats a good thing, IMHO. The stuff would/will carbon an engine badly, at 32-1. Any 2 cycle oil thats rated (api-tc) will work fine for break-in, at 40/50-1. Go to Wal mart, there are a bunch of them there.

I just talked to them today and they said lawnboy ashless is what they use and still recommend. Go figure???

Altavillan,

Your 114-1 spits more stuff over the bottom of a plane than RTK's and mine combined. Makes me wonder how that Opti stuff works.

Seriously though, the engines I see at lean oil ratios look quite a bit like than one you have that blew up. The 50-1 mix engines are truly clean.

BTW, I might be getting rid of a new BME 115 pretty soon. I'll keep you in mind if I do.

I break in my engines with 32:1 Lawnboy ashless.

Gas engines do not get any cooling effect from the oil, so running them rich will do nothing!!
Running them lean will burn them up, so never ever run them lean.

Tune the high end to max rpm, then back of a couple hundred rpm.
Tune the low end for a reliable idle and smooth acceleration to full throttle.

Do a tuning test in flight by going vertical at full throttle (engine should not lag).
if it goes lean on your vertical, then return to a level flight and don't fly at full throttle until have have adjusted the needle(high side).

Run a minimum of 3 gallons of fuel at 32:1 the go to 40:1 for another 2 gallons.
then go to 50:1

MR G

Originally Posted by MR G

I break in my engines with 32:1 Lawnboy ashless.

Gas engines do not get any cooling effect from the oil, so running them rich will do nothing!!

I really can't believe what I am reading. So, the oil does not cool them down ehh? Run one without oil, and one with... tell me which one runs hotter.

Oil does cool them down. Oil cools the rings and wrist pins down. Believe me, I have tested motors with 0 oil for short runs and I have plenty of data to back up the fact that oil does cool them. Although it might cool indirectly because of friction loss, non the less, it still aids in cooling the motor internally. So to say it does not cool is incorrect and I respectfully diagree that it does not.

Break-in? wtf? .... never heard of it....

Ok, for all the experts (ex-spurts) why are you so opposed to break in oil? Many engines still require break in oil and many do not. If you rebuild on older design engine (automotive) and do nor place additives in the oil, you risk wiping a new camshaft. Modern oils do not have some of the required components because the new engine designs do not require them. (roller cams etc) Depending on the machine work level in an engine, it can take some time to seat the rings to the cyls. That is the reason that I understand the makers of these engine suggest break in oils. If you go straight to a synthetic with the higher lubricity, it may take a VERY long time to fully seat the rings. This results in lower compression and lower power for a longer time. By running a few gallons through at the correct mixture, you lap the rings in quickly and then go to whatever you want. Very much the same theory as running in a flat tappet camshaft.

I have always broken my engines in while flying. Glow or gas does not matter. There have been only a couple of large glow four strokes that required a little heat cycling to make them reliable enough to fly.

As far as gas goes, get the mixture right (not rich or lean) and fly it. Back off on the load a little while with both throttle control and prop. Run a break in oil (I use the lawnboy) then switch to synthetic. I have been running HR1 and am trying RedLine now. I do not like 80 or 100 to one as I prefer the conditions I see at 40-50:1.

I do not agree that engines have three stages of new, worn and worn out. I think it is more like new, worn in, worn and worn out. Getting them worn in well is the best course. Just like a fine fire arm or quality tool, it may be a little on the tight side until it seats in. I like that. They get better with time for a while if treated well. Now if it is not an engine that has the fit to benefit from that procedure it will make no difference. If it does and you do not treat it properly, you may never see the performance that would have been available.

A question I have to the proponents of using one oil to "Break In" and then switch to another "Better" lube to finish the engines life with is...

What is the "Magic Sign" that tells you it is ready for the good stuff?? How can one put a "2 gallons" or "5 gallons" quantity on an unknown result? in other words how does one KNOW that the engine is ready for the good lube and when it is not, what are the tattle tale signs that "give it away"??

If all that is acheived is quickening the "Seating" of the ring to land and cylinder why not run 12 oz. of straight fuel with no oil to REALLY speed up the "break in" process?? OK I am not entirely serious with the NO oil statement , but trying to make a point..

I am just trying to understand why during the most important time in an engines life, when all the new fresh machined parts are "Mating up", would you trust an inferior lubricant at a increased content then after a predetermined amount of fuel or running time, that is drawn out of thin air, switch to a better lubricant at a lower content.. Just does not make a lot of sense to me...

This is one of those subjects where the term "To each his own" fits...


Just food for thought...

Rick

Why do people think the suggested run in gallons are drawn out of thin air? Perhaps the people that sell these engine have years of testing and observation to offer the guideline to those without the time or inclination to take the exhaust off and look at the condition of the rings and walls. I personally chose to follow the recommendations of those that work almost exclusively with one type of engine as opposed to those that will work on almost anything. Specialist vs generalist.

This is not to say that some generalists have spent a great deal of time and effort to establish the opinions they have. The opinions would just be more general. In general what is suggested likely works very well, in specific, I am flying a brand of engine. Talk about repair and maintenance of automobiles in general and the conversation and advice may be good. Start asking specific questions and "it depends" becomes the answer.

We do not run the same oils in diesels as we do in gas cars. Not all 10-30 oil is the same. If you believe all oil is the same and all engines are the same, ignorance is truly bliss.

We do not run the same oils in diesels as we do in gas cars

Actually I have run Delo400 or Rotella T in everything 4 cycle.. Everything From the Envoy all the way to and including 750hp SBC and 1240hp normally aspirated BBC.The Increased EP package in these oils have proven to double roller tappet life in the engines I have fooled with as well as excellent piston skirt and bearing floatation, even in heavy side loaded application like my standard deck height 448sbc.(4.125" stroke 6" rod with a .957" pin height.)

Diesel specific oil is a VERY good oil provided you can find it in a suitable viscocity..

I "Break in" with the same oil as well...

Perhaps the people that sell these engine have years of testing and observation to offer the guideline to those without the time or inclination to take the exhaust off and look at the condition of the rings and walls. I personally chose to follow the recommendations of those that work almost exclusively with one type of engine as opposed to those that will work on almost anything. Specialist vs generalist.

Same people that design the planes also give recomended throws for the surfaces.. I don't follow them either...

I guess Ignorance IS Bliss in my case...

Rick

Rickster,

Nice. Selective quotes from my thread. What gas plane engine are you running with a roller cam? How many miles have you put on the 750hp sbc? How about the 1200hp engine? Daily drivers? You may be able to get away with some of those oils in car engines in Texas, but the person in Wisconsin may have different result. (Likely will)

I said it depends on the technology in the engine and the characteristics of the oil. They are not all the same. Please read the entire post instead of just selecting information to support your beliefs. People are entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts.

Plane makers also suggest a CG point for the airframe. I bet you throw that out and just balance the plane somewhere behind the spinner or in front of the stabs? There is a range within which performance and life will be acceptable. Outside of that, all bets are off. I set my throws up larger than many plane makers suggest. If I go too far and pass the capability of the servos and links, I may get flutter or blowback. Is that the manufacturers fault or the person that throws out the recommendation? See, when this stuff is posted here without all the "what iffs" people read it and think "ok". Then they try it and are unhappy with the result.

Same with servos, batteries and props. Make this sound like you can use anything and people will do it. When they are unhappy, who is to blame? The manufacturer? Do you think there is a reason why there are recommended products? If you had to put your company reputation on the line with a product, do you think you would try to come up with an easy system that could be repeated for the best likely results?

this is one of those "my horse is bigger than your horse type threads, started out with a very good question and has now turned into who can piss ths furthest.
If you purchase an engine from brand A and use brand B break-in meathods, or your buddies advice, and you only get 150 to 200 flights out of your engine while everyone else is getting twice that then you should start your own engine company and make out like a bandit on engine sales til everyone finds out that your engine is not worth the $ it takes to purchase,
DA says to run your new engine with lawnboy ashless for 3 to 5 gals on a DA 150.
as I said before if they tell me to piss on the engine after every flight to help with break-in then guess what! that engine is going to have a great yellow hue to it after breah-in,
just my 2cnts......roflmao

This is just one of those cases where everyone has their own ideas. As far as which gasser airplane engine I have in an airplane has a roller cam, I was not the one that brought automotive 4 cycle engine comparison into the thread, I was merely telling my opinion/ findings with said oils.How mcuh milage I get out of an engine is defined by the life of the valvesprings not anything related to lubricity. The SBC was a daily driver with A/C with full interior and produced that power normally aspirated..

BUT on to the subject at hand..

This breakin debate is pretty much a stalemate to both sides. There is only one thing that matters in the end and that is a good running long lived motor.. If you achieve those results by running 5 gallons of Lawnboy first and I get those results from running BelRay H1R from day one then neither is wrong, just different..
Following the manufacturer's recomendation is the safest by far and if in doubt should be adhered to to the letter..

If I offended anyone by quoting from other posts I am sorry.. I only did that only to show what I was responding to not to disrespect anyone...

Run em' in however you please,
Rick

Originally Posted by Rickster

Following the manufacturer's recomendation is the safest by far and if in doubt should be adhered to to the letter..

Yeehaw! If you have questions, call the manufacturer. If you bought it from China...

Desert Aircraft still recommends Lawnboy Ashless mixed at 32:1 for 4 to 6 gallons. When you look through the exhaust port at the ring and no longer see any radial marks on the piston ring it is ok to switch to a synthetic oil . The 2 that we recommend are Redline Racing oil at 40:1 and Amsoil Saber professional mixed at 100:1. This is what is recommended with our engines and may differ from other manufactures. As others have stated its best to contact the manufacture of your engine and follow there recommendations.