Torque rolls,hovering, and all that 3d stuff......it seems to me that no matter how much practice you do, if you don't have the gift for it, you may never get it ?

I do not agree with this, it starts with the right set up and practice, practice, practice use the sym and take one thing at a time.

Originally Posted by Keener

Torque rolls,hovering, and all that 3d stuff......it seems to me that no matter how much practice you do, if you don't have the gift for it, you may never get it ?

I on the other hand, do somewhat agree with this statement. Youth, natural talent (The "gift" if you will) AND practice is tough to beat. Given enough practice time you'll get better, but I.M.O. you'll never beat the natural talent.

Or, maybe I'm just old & jaded.. :-)

Oh horse doody...
Sure it is intimidating -
Hell, I am 52 yrs old and I taught myself to hover and do rolling hariers and the like when I was like 40 something.
You can do it - man just don't give up.
If you decide that you can't do it or keep making up lame ass excuses.
Like your born with it or someother bullcrap excuse than you won't.
Nut up man!
Ya know there was an article where Mark Leesberg describes how long it took him to get the rolling harrier drilled into his brain. I think he said like a hundred fifty hours or something before he really got it.
Get yourself Aerofly pro - and start practicing your ass off.
Then do some research - how to vids that describe 3D are all over the place.
Then you will figure it out. Its timing - pulsing the motor - getting some air over the tail group the - right angle of attack and so forth.

It took me about a month - three to 4 nights a week for about an hour or so.
After about the 2nd week (on the flight sim) it started to sink in what to look at on the plane and when. I got a foamy and started to work on it with a foamy
then I stuffed stuff into one sock and started trying on my giant scale G202 which sucked for 3D
I eventually got it. It did take me some time before ai really got good at it.
Yes it takes a little while - if you get away from it your timing might off but you get back on it.
Just dont give up.

Then you just start to not think about and react to it.
Then it starts to get really fricken fun!
Have some tenacity.
Keep telling yourself you can do this -
Because - YOU CAN DO THIS!
DO NOT DEFEAT YOURSELF!
I do not want to hear anymore of this I am or he/she is just born with it - they are not born with they nutted up and stuck with it and did not give up.

Oh Jake is right - messing with CG is needed in most cases.
A little aft CG does help - try not go too far lots of expo (80%+ usually) helps in while hi rates.

Ronster

everyone has its's different opinion

good , we should try our best to do our things,never give up !
Whatever is worth doing is worth doing well.

Originally Posted by rdgood

Oh horse doody...
Sure it is intimidating -
Hell, I am 52 yrs old and I taught myself to hover and do rolling hariers and the like when I was like 40 something.
You can do it - man just don't give up.
If you decide that you can't do it or keep making up lame ass excuses.
Like your born with it or someother bullcrap excuse than you won't.
Nut up man!
Ya know there was an article where Mark Leesberg describes how long it took him to get the rolling harrier drilled into his brain. I think he said like a hundred fifty hours or something before he really got it.
Get yourself Aerofly pro - and start practicing your ass off.
Then do some research - how to vids that describe 3D are all over the place.
Then you will figure it out. Its timing - pulsing the motor - getting some air over the tail group the - right angle of attack and so forth.

It took me about a month - three to 4 nights a week for about an hour or so.
After about the 2nd week (on the flight sim) it started to sink in what to look at on the plane and when. I got a foamy and started to work on it with a foamy
then I stuffed stuff into one sock and started trying on my giant scale G202 which sucked for 3D
I eventually got it. It did take me some time before ai really got good at it.
Yes it takes a little while - if you get away from it your timing might off but you get back on it.
Just dont give up.

Then you just start to not think about and react to it.
Then it starts to get really fricken fun!
Have some tenacity.
Keep telling yourself you can do this -
Because - YOU CAN DO THIS!
DO NOT DEFEAT YOURSELF!
I do not want to hear anymore of this I am or he/she is just born with it - they are not born with they nutted up and stuck with it and did not give up.

Oh Jake is right - messing with CG is needed in most cases.
A little aft CG does help - try not go too far lots of expo (80%+ usually) helps in while hi rates.

Ronster

Wow, I feel better now..
I still think it's like a lot of other talents, and is going to be easier for some than others.
Hand eye coordination, age, and other factors will play a big part in the learning curve/ability and ultimate outcome. I've been working on this aerobatics and 3D stuff for several years now, and it's frustratingly slow. It is also a highly individualized thing I'll agree.

It looks like, if I'm interpreting your post correctly, you've been flying for 12 years. My experience stretches back a little less than 4. I'm sure things will improve with time...

And in the video I saw of Leseburg, he did mention a number of hours to learn the rollers. Seems like he said 5000 sim hours....

I like that "T" shirt in your profile pic btw....

Originally Posted by jakie4

I do not agree with this, it starts with the right set up and practice, practice, practice use the sym and take one thing at a time.

Maybe he means some people just don't have the coordination/reaction to do it and that is fact. Sports for example, some kids just do not have the body control to play sports and no matter how much they practice they are not going to play it on par with other athletes and I am not talking the pros. But consider if all the practice made you perfect then there would be no difference in joe average 3D guy and the winner of the XFC. Some individuals just have better talents for certain things in life. Just saying.
Jeff

Another good way to put it, thanks..
Sometimes I have a hard time getting a point across...

Well...tell me the best sim to practice with.

Keener,
I have the RealFlight. It's the only one I've ever used, so I have nothing to compare it to. It seems to be fine. Others may have a broader range of experiences...

Get Realflight G6 - it will be the best RC related software investment you will ever make to learn how to fly. Learning 3D takes time, patience, and loads of effort and practice. It took me 5 hours a day for a LONG time, of practice on the sim to get my high speed rolling loops to what they are now, and believe me I felt like giving up at a time too. But if you really want to be able to do it, practice hard and don't beat yourself up because you can't harrier roll in a month.
Start slow, use the simulation rate speed adjustment and take it down so you can practice in slow-motion if you have to.
Keep trying the maneuver until you don't crash, or until you feel like you've gotten somewhere.
If you're not hitting the red reset button, you're not learning anything new.

Don't fly within yourself, push your envelope and expand it.

Something you crashed while trying today, keep practicing and you won't crash on it next week.

Keep practicing the same thing until you have full control, enough to do it with a real plane.

Do it with the real plane.

Perfect it.

Smile.