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F3M
Hello! I'm interested in F3M but haven't seen or heard much more than what is on the website.
Are there any contests, documentation or other information on how the F3M contests are working out? Thanks! |
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are they using the same boring schedule of maneuvers as IMAC or more interesting stuff like FAI Pattern (F3A)
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more like the IAC?
I'm guessing by the rules on the F3M stuff I've seen they double stack maneuvers to get more into one "sequence" like pattern does. Without half points I wonder how people get points for some of these maneuvers...lots of room for error on a loop combination with roll elements with a square loop following including snaps and multiple rolls...all with only 10 points to give away!
Here's an F3M thread from 2010 with pics of the planes and sequences about half way down the first page: https://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/...ad.php?t=55191 Mith, did/do you compete in the Unlimited Class in IMAC? Also, meeting all the criteria for a successful Freestyle routine while arousing the spectators can be quite challenging in itself...I'm not sure where the boredom comes from... We're kidding ourselves if we think we are more than a bunch of geeks flying toy airplanes...but I love it! Even full scale aviation has lost the amazement of the public. Can't wait to see you at an event next year in CA...I'm moving back West! |
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I fly f3M in France.
I don't know if it is easier or harder than IMAC, this is the 2013 known to compare http://www.grossevoltige.com/images/...2013/inter.pdf Internationally the futue seems like it will be more IMAC dominated which is a shame as i think it is better than IMAC with no subjective scoring and more interesting sequences. there is only one true F3M class, which is unlimited level and not so accessible for the vast majority of pilots. So if you want to make it accessible at lower pilot skills each country will have to make up its own rules for the lower classes like the French do. Often it is just easier for organizing bodies to just adopt IMAC rules and classes even though they will have no input into those rules and they will always be not ideal for the ideosychracies of each country. I also think IMAC has just too many classes, which spreads out the few pilots who enter the smaller competitions. In France F3M is solidly established and well attended and I can't see IMAC ever getting a toehold, as we have flown competitions to mostly F3M rules long before the creation of an F3M class. but even here, most pilots fly the lower levels to true F3M, rarely do the true F3M (International in France) class get more than 4 or 5 competitors. Maybe if the FAI promoted it more it would have a stronger presence, but now it seems more and more euro countries are adopting IMAC rules for convenience. |
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I've been living in France just over one year now, and flew F3M this past summer in the International class. Previously, I flew Unlimited in the USA. My observations between the two:
- F3M has never really taken hold in the USA for exactly the same reason IMAC doesn't exist in France: the other sport is too deeply rooted. Maybe before I leave France I'll try to drag Wayne Matthews over here to help me put on an IMAC contest.... - IMAC focuses more on exacting precision than F3M; F3M measures deviations in 15 degree increments, IMAC in 5. However, F3M is more concerned with the flow and rhythm of the sequence. Also, in my opinion F3M is more subjective than IMAC. For example, at an F3M event last summer, I was downgraded on a particular maneuver because the judges considered that my roll was performed to quickly. - IMAC loves their snap rolls! IMAC figures seem to be more crowded with elements (rolls, snaps, spins) than F3M uses; however, F3M uses some unique (and challenging!) figures you won't find in the ARESTI catalog (rolling loops, triangles, etc). - F3M is more demanding in that you are really forced into flying within a box (end boundaries); F3M also has centering criteria like IMAC used to have. I think these elements in F3M require you to more fully evaluate your flying style, and also plan more carefully your sequence layout and timing. - One of the many arguments I've heard in the US is that if IMAC went back to an aerobatic box like F3M uses, then it would keep airplanes in closer and limit overfly issues. While I do think this is somewhat true, I know it is possible to fly really large sequences in F3M if you want to. - One thing both IMAC and F3M have in common: great people! I have some really good friends from IMAC in the US, and I've met a lot of really great people flying F3M here in France too. People who are really friendly and willing to help you out, and share their experiences; even if you're competing against them! I'm not sure where F3M is headed, with Julien Vissers leaving behind very big shoes to fill, the economic crisis in Europe still dragging down people's bank accounts, and ever growing pressure on space and noise regulation...but F3M is a great sport, very challenging, and a lot of fun. Pete |
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Ciao,
For me it is very stimulating to see that the interest for large scale aerobatics is still very high in the US. In 2010, after five years of testing, FAI has formally introduced F3M as an official competing category. I am currently organizing a large F3M event in Italy and you are all invited to participate as Pilots or qualified Public, it would make a nice vacation on the Garda Lake: www.f3m-Italiancup.com My views on the future of F3M are posted within the same site at: http://www.f3m-italiancup.com/#!f3m-news/c2in I believe that the inability of FAI and IMAC to find a common path is not in the best interest of arimodellers and I really hope this negative situation will change in the near future. Being a long time International FAI F3A, F3M, XFC judge I can tell you that the differences in the rules and sequences, between the IMAC and the FAI regulations, are not so substantial. Pilots and Judges could operate in both environments without much difficulty. It is just a matter of will and positive future visions. The only concrete obstacle to the implementation of a large scale aerobatics World Championship, apart non interesting politics, is the fact that the cost of shipping of our big and heavy machines is quite high. The largest market segment of model aerobatic planes is clearly developing in the direction of large scale reliable ARF gas airplanes and so I believe that the managers of FAI and IMAC will sooner of later have to find the right shared path. Have a good flight, Manrico |
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the folks at IMAC are still mired in this concept that the planes ought to perform "Scale" maneuvers in a scale manner....
Unlike the F3A guys who embrace clever combinations of maneuvers that actually take advantage of the abilities of the plane.... (The figure M with the 1/2 rolling loop between the vertical elements comes to mind) I doubt there will ever be a unification (between IMAC and FAI) until one faction or the other is willing to change their paradigm of what giant scale aerobatics is..... |
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I agree with you.
However, if the people discussing about integration were Pilots and Judges, I believe the solution would be found rather quickly, since they have the will to integrate and the real interest in participating to large scale world events. Instead, the FAI and IMAC people sitting at the discussion table in most cases do not even fly anymore. Their main interest is to protect and nurture the importance of their organization. So what is the most relevant paradigm to change, the one stating what is the best way to perform large scale aerobatics or the one describing what should be the mission of organizations such as FAI or IMAC? Manrico |
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Quote:
For those of us "mired" in our desire to emulate full-scale aircraft, we have IMAC; those "clever" enough can participate in FAI competitions. And those rare few who are mired in their cleverness can participate in both. Pete |
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I fly IMAC, would like to come over to France to try an F3M comp but my main concern is the box. Surely the only way to get a decent schedule in a 60 degree box is to push it further away, not fly it smaller. I've got good eyes but the distance I imagine would be required must be quite uncomfortable, especially at the far end of rollers or after a cross box manoeuvre.
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For example, we have Yaks, Extras, Sukhois, Caps...all great airframes, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. We don't limit our choices, we explore them all and then decide to keep the one(s) that we like the best. We have different radio technologies, because some people like orange and others like red. FAI and IMAC each have their own different missions. I don't see the need to combine them or to change either one. Pete |
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Tom, come on over!
I was worried about going back into the box when I got here. I was practicing all of my sequences really tight and close together, because my club field doesn't have any lines painted on the ground so I could see where the box actually was. When I got to my first contest, I was surprised at how much more room there is. btw, it's a 150 degree box with a 60 degree ceiling from the pilot. It's bigger than you'd think. Pete |
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You do have to be very box aware though, and reliably fly to the box edges. There is no IMAC style cross box stuff in F3M to worry about anyway. Just the rolling circuits. Come on over, the French know how to organize an event. and we have way better weather than you are used to. Check this address for upcoming events http://www.grossevoltige.com/calendr...-concours-2013 there will be many more added closer to the date, keep an eye out for cancellations too, there were quite a few this year for various reasons. If you are going to do one event, try the Romily one, easy to get to from the UK and the biggest open one of the year. 12 to 14 July. |
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The reasons why it would be a lot better to have only one (one or the other or a shared thing) are the following:
1. Several important Pilots will not invest their career into a category that is not global and doesn't organize a World Championship to aspire to; 2. We will never have a serious Large Scale Aerobatics World Championship if we have two competing bodies occupying and developing the territories, since some Pilots will fly IMAC and some others will fly FAI. Because of these reasons several European top F3A Pilots do not leave to focus on the emerging F3M. I believe this is a case where all the players would profit from further aggregation and not from separation. Ciao, Manrico |
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