Why do I have the feeling that if our radios had single step, single speed trims as a default we might hear a certain person bemoaning the fact that he could have saved his plane if he would have had more and faster trim control?

I love the adjustable trim steps, high for a maiden, low to fine tune.

Trims are just cheats for a poor flying aircraft like gyros and mixes. a Real pilot just flies the plane with the sticks.

Originally Posted by Robotech

Why do I have the feeling that if our radios had single step, single speed trims as a default we might hear a certain person bemoaning the fact that he could have saved his plane if he would have had more and faster trim control?

Yep, I wonder how that works... during a maiden how do you even hold a trim down with your hand on the sticks?

I agree nothing is perfect, but modeling transmitter behavior on a TV volume control seems silly.

Then again I rarely fly anything that ever needs more that a few clicks of any trim... the folks that are out in the weeds with trim are probably there for a reason. Like, out in the weeds picking up planes. Pretty sure I've never had to stand on the trims so that's a foreign notion to me. Sounds like pilot error if you have to do so.

Originally Posted by why_fly_high

Trims are just cheats for a poor flying aircraft like gyros and mixes. a Real pilot just flies the plane with the sticks.

If you want to have some fun some time, take a buddy box and remove all the return springs and let all your friends at the flying field give it a try. The variations in the results are shocking. Some pilots almost don't miss the springs at all (the really good ones), and some can't hardly even fly the plane.

I am not picking on, or making fun of anyone. (I am somewhere in between...) In case what you were wondering what this has to do with trims... A plane without return springs has no trim setting.

Who knows, flying a plane like that might even be a good teaching tool?

Originally Posted by Ran D. St. Clair

If you want to have some fun some time, take a buddy box and remove all the return springs and let all your friends at the flying field give it a try. The variations in the results are shocking. Some pilots almost don't miss the springs at all (the really good ones), and some can't hardly even fly the plane.

I am not picking on, or making fun of anyone. (I am somewhere in between...) In case what you were wondering what this has to do with trims... A plane without return springs has no trim setting.

Who knows, flying a plane like that might even be a good teaching tool?

LOL I'll take all the help I can get. Short of adding failure points though!

IMO trims and mixes make the experience more enjoyable- if those make my crappy planes less crappy, then hooray!

Originally Posted by Ran D. St. Clair

If you want to have some fun some time, take a buddy box and remove all the return springs and let all your friends at the flying field give it a try. The variations in the results are shocking. Some pilots almost don't miss the springs at all (the really good ones), and some can't hardly even fly the plane.

I am not picking on, or making fun of anyone. (I am somewhere in between...) In case what you were wondering what this has to do with trims... A plane without return springs has no trim setting.

Who knows, flying a plane like that might even be a good teaching tool?

I may have to try that. Sounds like fun.

Hi, Im new here. Singed up to find a replacement 100cc airframe. Reason? The reason im posting in this subject. Im not a brand basher, nor take responsibility from the pilot (myself). I got back into this hobby 6 month ago. Its been a very hard thing to keep going, as I have now lost 3 planes do to loss of signal, temporary lock out or what you want to call it. First 1 was on a spektrum 7s. Very simple set ups on small plane. new battery, good charge first flight of the day. I sent it back to Horizon, they replaced the module and sent it back. I then flew with no issues the next weekend. all day. The very next weekend, 3rd flight of the day same thing happened, but I was able to pull it out just in time. So, I set down that radio and picked up my 6i and flew my wife's plane, simple setup. new battery. and the it happened again, same day. That one did not pull out. So everyone at the field was like get rid of that spektrum crap! So I did, I picked up a Futaba fg8s. Put the everything in a 33% Sukhoi. This time, I ran 2 2500mah life on a smart fly power board. Every wire was safety lock, all wires had shielding on them. Ignition was completely on its on battery and switch. I put on the rfi ground straps from ch ignition. all dean connectors. I was bound not to have a issue again. I field tested it in every way I could think. Engine running, not running. Even drove down the road on a cell phone. I flew the Sukhoi at a desert near my house. 2 different days. No issues. I took it to the field for a Big Bird event. 5 minutes into the flight, lost it gain......... nothing was left. I have lost sleep hunting the problem. My only idea at this point is the field. everything was different in all 3 planes. I may not be the best pilot, but I assure you I am very very picky on my setups. I spend more time making everything perfect. So, any ideas I would love to hear. Again the only constant is the field, and me of cource. I had guys come over to look at my plane after, and all they could say was I did a nice job in setup. Even a Hitech sponsored guy, for what that is worth. I dont want to quit. But I cant keep doing this.

I did forget to add that I flew for 3 months on FM with no crashes at all. Not even a hard landing. That was before I switched to the 2.4 stuff.

Feel your pain Street... it is hard to break so many planes. The money, time that goes into it is precious.
Sorry have no advice, can just sympathize.

Thanks for that. It helps

Originally Posted by Street2strip1320

Hi, Im new here. Singed up to find a replacement 100cc airframe. Reason? The reason im posting in this subject. Im not a brand basher, nor take responsibility from the pilot (myself). I got back into this hobby 6 month ago. Its been a very hard thing to keep going, as I have now lost 3 planes do to loss of signal, temporary lock out or what you want to call it. First 1 was on a spektrum 7s. Very simple set ups on small plane. new battery, good charge first flight of the day. I sent it back to Horizon, they replaced the module and sent it back. I then flew with no issues the next weekend. all day. The very next weekend, 3rd flight of the day same thing happened, but I was able to pull it out just in time. So, I set down that radio and picked up my 6i and flew my wife's plane, simple setup. new battery. and the it happened again, same day. That one did not pull out. So everyone at the field was like get rid of that spektrum crap! So I did, I picked up a Futaba fg8s. Put the everything in a 33% Sukhoi. This time, I ran 2 2500mah life on a smart fly power board. Every wire was safety lock, all wires had shielding on them. Ignition was completely on its on battery and switch. I put on the rfi ground straps from ch ignition. all dean connectors. I was bound not to have a issue again. I field tested it in every way I could think. Engine running, not running. Even drove down the road on a cell phone. I flew the Sukhoi at a desert near my house. 2 different days. No issues. I took it to the field for a Big Bird event. 5 minutes into the flight, lost it gain......... nothing was left. I have lost sleep hunting the problem. My only idea at this point is the field. everything was different in all 3 planes. I may not be the best pilot, but I assure you I am very very picky on my setups. I spend more time making everything perfect. So, any ideas I would love to hear. Again the only constant is the field, and me of cource. I had guys come over to look at my plane after, and all they could say was I did a nice job in setup. Even a Hitech sponsored guy, for what that is worth. I dont want to quit. But I cant keep doing this.

Here again it's a classic case of it not being Spektrum's fault, or Futaba's, or probably HiTec or Airtronic's, but something that was common to any radio that we might use. You have my full sympathy my friend. I see people here having the same trouble as you are having. You need to look for one common denominator. Switches, wireing, not having a battery back-up system, and something else besides the radio. I have flown on 27Mhz, 72Mhz, 2.4Ghz, AM, FM, Heathkit, Airtronics, HiTec, Futaba, and Spektrum, and can safely say as a Failure Analysis Engineer, that I have never experienced an out of range, or lockout failure. I have had battery, switch, and servo failures, but never a radio failure, and as you can see by the equipment that I have been using, that's been a very long time. Yet, when a plane goes down, that's the first thing that the all self appointed field experts want to blame. Keep searching all areas of your installations my friend, and be careful in everything that you do prior to flight. There's an answer out there somewhere, but unfortunately, I don't have one for every body. What battery chemistry, how many volts, and Mah's are you using ? Describe them in detail please ?


zak

Originally Posted by MaceH

Same tx referenced in this thread went to full limit on aileron trim, perhaps because the trim was accidentally held... but dunno. The resulting ~20% of full aileron on takeoff resulted in a very hard landing with not minor damage.

I'm wondering why trims do that even- is there EVER a reason you'd just hold a trim button and let it go any distance? Why would you ever not want just one trim step per touch of the button? Bizarre 'feature'- hold it to make it zoom towards a limit. Tx code had to be added to do that- the programmers methinks don't fly much.

Same tx also has the antenna hinge pin fallen out. Good luck finding it. User will replace the whole antenna but that tiny coax connector inside cant be real robust and handling it methinks is a bad idea.

I had a Sig Extra ARF (purple and white) set up with generous control throws on Ailerons. The Aileron servo connectors hung in the fuselage, just below the fuel tank. A small leak in the fuel tank caused oil to get into the Aileron connectors. One Aileron would suddenly Deflect to the maximum, forcing me to land with almost full opposite Aileron throw on the one Aileron that still responded. I was able to do so, safely.

With regard to Digital Trims, As mentioned, the Trim Step feature allows you to adjust how many degrees the servo moves with each click of the Trim lever. I have found that if anything, the default Trim Step setting requires a Long hold of the Trim lever to get any Trim movement. If I am doing a Maiden flight and the aircraft is far out of Trim, I want the Trim to act immediately and not slowly advance. I would Increase the Trim Step for a Maiden and then return it to normal.

I have a Jet Cat turbine engine. In order to shut down the engine in an emergency, I need to set the Throttle Stick and Throttle Trim to Idle, as quickly as possible. Since Digital Trims move slowly, with the default Trim Step, I set the Trim Step, for the Throttle, to the Max, so it drops to Idle, fast.

I see many new pilots, that have transmitters with Analog Trims, preparing to fly with Trim Levers that were accidentally moved to extremes as a result of handling, while the Tx is Off. Digital Trims cannot be changed, accidentally, while the Tx is Off and even when the Tx is On, it takes considerable effort.

I do not see where the problem is. The default Trim Step setting helps minimize accidental Trim movement. Also, the transmitter Beeps with every click of Trim. It would be obvious that large Trim changes were being made if you hear a series of rapid Beeps.

Originally Posted by starzak

Here again it's a classic case of it not being Spektrum's fault, or Futaba's, or probably HiTec or Airtronic's, but something that was common to any radio that we might use. You have my full sympathy my friend. I see people here having the same trouble as you are having. You need to look for one common denominator. Switches, wireing, not having a battery back-up system, and something else besides the radio. I have flown on 27Mhz, 72Mhz, 2.4Ghz, AM, FM, Heathkit, Airtronics, HiTec, Futaba, and Spektrum, and can safely say as a Failure Analysis Engineer, that I have never experienced an out of range, or lockout failure. I have had battery, switch, and servo failures, but never a radio failure, and as you can see by the equipment that I have been using, that's been a very long time. Yet, when a plane goes down, that's the first thing that the all self appointed field experts want to blame. Keep searching all areas of your installations my friend, and be careful in everything that you do prior to flight. There's an answer out there somewhere, but unfortunately, I don't have one for every body. What battery chemistry, how many volts, and Mah's are you using ? Describe them in detail please ?


zak

+1. Your experiences mirror mine, go figure. Even the failure analysis stuff.

Also got to add that with gassers, there's now tons of possible rf noise- a 3kv spark is a noisy thing. Painful too I can attest. Folks coming from nitro should beware a more hostile radio environment. The folks coming from electrics should beware a MUCH more hostile radio environment.

I find that it helps to set up the installation from the radio's point of view- not 'where CAN this go' but 'where SHOULD this go'. This thread references some resources about such things.

Also those new to more-channel radios need to consider ONE servo per rx port- doing otherwise seems to invite disaster.

I was runnig 2 2 cell Life 6.6v. 2500mah 5c. On a smart fly power board with deans. Both batteries tested good after the crash.(tested at the hitech stand at the event) One battery went to one side of a 2 switch miracle switch, and the other battery to the other switch. Both were fully charged, and had only been flying for 5 minutes. The receiver is a Futaba R6208SB S, had one power lead from the smart fly on ch7, and one in the s bus connector. Smart fly said not to put one in slot 8,(batt) The receiver was located about 2 feet behind the fire wall maybe more, about id say 6" behind the wing tube. One antina faced the left, the other the right. Not one thing in this plane came from any of my others. all connectors had locks, and all wires loomed. Everything was new. I too do not want to put blame on the radio, nor the field. I am willing to set up my plane exactly like a expert would like me to, and then if something goes wrong, it would eliminate even more. I will say this. 2 month ago, we lost 12-14 planes all on Spektrum at that field in one months time. Horizon sent a email to everyone in the club explaining how to set up you radio. They did set up a new irrigation tower about 20 mile away on a mountain about 6 months ago. But to me, to blame that seems to be digging deep. Here is something else weird. I know alot of planes go down. But I found mine right next to another crash sight. I mean mine was on top of it.
The only other thing I can think of is I have removed my battery from the transmitter a few time to do a slow discharge. Again digging deep. oh, all servos checked out ok after the crash. Hi-tq digital of-course.

One last thing, and im only putting this in there, because I feel you need every last thing. After I got home I put the Transmitter in field test mode with the smart fly board connected. I got bout 100ft out before any disruption. about 70 more then futaba says. the I ran the battery directly into the receiver and did the same test. This time I made it about 130ft out. Using drive ways as a mark. again! I know Im digging deep. But, thats all I know at this point.

Thats everything I can think of. Thanks for your time