I've been reading lately about different radios, and their approaches to programming certain flight conditions. This isn't about a brand war; I think most radio manufacturers have some type of programming technology that allows the user to input a set of values, with "if...then..." statements, such that when certain conditions were met, a certain result is achieved by the aircraft.

For example, a user programs into their Whizbang radio a flight condition: when rudder and aileron are at full deflection, and throttle is at full, this equates to an upline snap roll. The radio then commands the servos to reduce elevator and rudder throws from their normal rate, and to increase the aileron throw from it's normal rate to achieve the optimum upline snap condition.

I'm curious to know what people think about this in terms of competition (IMAC, Pattern, etc.). Are we letting the computer (radio) fly the plane for us a little too much? At what point does computer assistance in flight become too much? Probably the use of an electronic gyro is "over the line" of acceptable computer aids. But I don't think anyone would argue that dual rates, or flight mixes (rudder to ail, elev, etc...) is over the line.

But: where IS the line? Or is there one?

I recall being told years ago that the "Snap roll" button on my old 10X radio was illegal for use in competition. I don't know of any where in the IMAC rules that prohibit a snap roll button, but the IMAC rules do state:

4.3: There shall be no airborne devices fitted to the aircraft which place the aircraft under less than total control by the pilot. These devices will include, but are not limited to, gyros, automatic pilots and timing devices. Non-airborne aids such as transmitter based functions are permissible.

(I don't follow Pattern, so I don't know what their rules are.)

Under a strict reading of the IMAC rules, the snap roll button doesn't seem to be prohibited. But I never used the snap roll button, except as a momentary switch for other purposes. However, in my view, it's not that far from jamming your sticks in a corner to achieve a certain flight condition to holding down a button to achieve a certain flight condition.

What say ye? Any constructive arguments for or against? I'm curious to see how technology will continue to integrate itself into our model airplane competition.

Pete

Originally Posted by pcastine

4.3: There shall be no airborne devices fitted to the aircraft which place the aircraft under less than total control by the pilot. These devices will include, but are not limited to, gyros, automatic pilots and timing devices. Non-airborne aids such as transmitter based functions are permissible.

From those rules anything goes if it originates in the transmitter and/or pilot and not in the plane, but with better and better telemetry and imagining there is zero link lag it may be possible for onboard sensors to tell the transmitter to send different signals to the aircraft when the aircraft tells it it is under specific flight conditions. A case of getting round the letter of the law but not the spirit. With gyros i cannot see the link being fast enough, but for other things it easily could be.

Personally, besides basic trim (travel, dual rates and expo), I fly with the sticks. Many times I've had people suggest coupling for knife edges, etc., but I'd rather trust my stick skills. You never know when wind conditions can negate or exaggerate what might have been programmed. As far as a snap roll button, why bother if it can be performed with the sticks. The button is one more reason for the fingers to leave the sticks, which is never a good idea. The only thing I couple is flaps and elevator, to offset the natural tendency for a plane to nose-up when flaps are lowered.

Bear in mind that this is my opinion. Others have the right to disagree.

No one I know in IMAC is using aids to the extent mentioned. Most of us use mixing to make straight lines at different throttle settings, uplines, downlines, axial rolls, point rolls, etc... I haven't seen anyone use any type of automation or logic to auto perform a snap, for example. With that, on some aircraft it is necessary to program a snap switch which gives you the proper control throws to make a nice snap. Snap roll throws aren't necessarily the throws you want to fly your whole sequence with.

I love the ol "I'll use my skills and not the radio to fly through it all" mentality. ...And its fine but in IMAC or pattern you simply can't be competitive that way because everyone mixes out their airplanes. Mixing also allows you to be more consistent which is key. I used to have that mentality also until I flew a properly set up IMAC airplane and was amazed at how well it flew because my workload was cut down. That's really the name of the game, cut down pilot workload.

A lot of people use exactly the type of snap condition setup Pete mentioned.

I personally don't have a problem with that, but I don't like it myself. I prefer to have full control and fly the airplane through a snap however I see fit. That said, it works great for some people.

The condition/mixing isn't doing anything that they couldn't do with the stick by themselves, so I don't see anything wrong with it from that perspective.

RJ

I think wings19 hit it right on the head. Most of the time the mixing is for straight lines. Coming from a 3d back ground I use to have huge control throws and wanted to fly everything on the sticks. However, After some of the IMAC guys got me on the right path I saw how much better my plane flew with less control throws and some mixing.

I personally do not use conditions as I would rather control that condition myself. I do go through and do the "advanced trimming" like setting mixes for various things to reduce my workload and make myself more consistent (maybe someday I'll be consistent as it seems the only consistency with me is that I'm inconsistent).

Using Pete's example, I had heard the same thing about the snap roll switch. I did setup that switch and noticed it could not give me that type of control in the snap that I could do for the plane I was flying at the time as that plane required rudder first followed by everything else when the switch was everything at the same time. Oh, I could get the throws good in the switch.

Interesting. I just figured out on my whizbang radio how to reduce throws on elevator and rudder when the throttle is at full and the ailerons are all the way to one side or the other. The only time this occurs during a sequence for me is on an upline snap. Since the elevator is not reduced until the ailerons go all the way over, it still has nice pitch departure, but the snap does not get so deep that it slows the plane too much. Downline snaps use standard elevator and rudder throws because the throttle is not at full. It has really helped a lot. Is it cheating? Not by the letter of the rule, but it is definitely a function not available on cheaper radios, so where do you draw the line? I also do not use flight modes other than rate switches. Reduce aileron for a roller, increase rudder for a hammer, high rates to land. Of course that can be done on any modern radio.

Flight conditions do not control the model in any manner. They simply set multiple throws, expo etc to certain parameters with the flip of a single switch, or if using logic switches if the sticks or a combination of switches are moved to a certain point. You still have to fly the model, and you still have full control over the control surfaces (albeit with the rates you preset). This is contrary to something like s snap button that moves the surfaces to pre-determined positions and throws.

I recommend flight conditions to reduce the pilot workload. As an example, instead of flipping three DR switches to get ready for a snap, you flip one switch and it has the same effect as the three switches. The same can be done with a logic switch as someone else described.

Flight conditions are currently legal in all forms of aerobatic competition at the AMA and FAI levels.

Steve

Plenty of IMAC pilots use flight conditions including most of the Invitational guys. I use three different flight conditions on my 14 MZ. Snap - which is controlled by the position of the sticks, spin which is on a switch and a high idle that drops to low idle when doing stall turns. Like Steve pointed out you are still in complete control of the aircraft but it reduces the flight load on the pilot substantially.

Originally Posted by wings19

No one I know in IMAC is using aids to the extent mentioned. Most of us use mixing to make straight lines at different throttle settings, uplines, downlines, axial rolls, point rolls, etc... I haven't seen anyone use any type of automation or logic to auto perform a snap, for example. With that, on some aircraft it is necessary to program a snap switch which gives you the proper control throws to make a nice snap. Snap roll throws aren't necessarily the throws you want to fly your whole sequence with.

I love the ol "I'll use my skills and not the radio to fly through it all" mentality. ...And its fine but in IMAC or pattern you simply can't be competitive that way because everyone mixes out their airplanes. Mixing also allows you to be more consistent which is key. I used to have that mentality also until I flew a properly set up IMAC airplane and was amazed at how well it flew because my workload was cut down. That's really the name of the game, cut down pilot workload.

Yep!

I Wonder the % of imac pilots that use flight conditions?

Not trying to hijack the thread but I just have a dx8 for my 55cc bird and its hard to justify a higher end TX that has conditions like the 11x. I did basic last year and been working on the sportsman sequence inluding a few flights today. Like everybody has already said; consistency is the key and my spin entry and snaps are not consistent.

Originally Posted by hugocraft

I Wonder the % of imac pilots that use flight conditions?

A very high percentage. It's hard to be flipping multiple switches while trying to fly lines.

I use three flight modes: IMAC (low rates), snap, and landing (high elevator and rudder). Then I have a separate switch just for high rate rudder for hammerheads which can be used in any flight mode.

I know a ton of people that use flight conditions to help their aircraft during all mods of flight including snaps at various throttle positions. Its somthing that I think is overly used and one of the reasons I really pulled back in flying IMAC to me it gives those people an unfair advantage.