Hello All,
A friend of mine was running a new DX7s with AR6210 rx and satellite, DSMX, and had a lockout-induced crash. Plane was on final. Had several fine flights before the event. System was redundantly powered with at least three JR connectors powered by LIFE batteries.

After the event, system on power up would not link to the TX. On next power up and subsequent power ups it would.

Has anyone had similar experience? I've recommended to him that he send the tx/rx pair back to Horizon for a checkout.

IMO this was either some sort of an infant mortality failure or if others are seeing this then a design defect. I've been using Spektrum for many years now in about 30 planes and have only seen out-of-range signal loss, no lockouts otherwise. So not pointing a finger yet- feedback wanted!!!

Typical Wreckdum performance. I had my fair share of troubles until I realized the best thing to do was to sell it. Leave the DSMX radios as marketing gimmicks for HH BNF toys.

Please be more constructive. We are looking for help. You are welcome to trashtalk Spektrum, but please give details if doing so.

What details do you want MaceH? I had lockout twice with my DX8, and I suspect the DX7s is very similar in software/hardware also.

First occasion was a 30cc Extra 300LP. Fresh A123 on RX. 5645's all around, Did a series of point rolls and about mid field the plane started rolling to the left and crashed. No response from the TX. Throttle down or kill switch had no effect. Plane exploded upon impact.

Second time was on an Electric EF Extra - Pretty much the same thing. Just locked out.

Sold and purchased Futaba 8fg, much better radio!

How many flights since a rebind?
I had similar issues until i started rebinding after i had done any programming or several flights & several days of flying.
Cant really explain why, but it sure seems to have put a stop to brownout/lockout issues

Originally Posted by 3DFTW

What details do you want MaceH? I had lockout twice with my DX8, and I suspect the DX7s is very similar in software/hardware also.

First occasion was a 30cc Extra 300LP. Fresh A123 on RX. 5645's all around, Did a series of point rolls and about mid field the plane started rolling to the left and crashed. No response from the TX. Throttle down or kill switch had no effect. Plane exploded upon impact.

Second time was on an Electric EF Extra - Pretty much the same thing. Just locked out.

Sold and purchased Futaba 8fg, much better radio!

Scary. Sorry for your loss! Nothing should ever have to crash.

Were you using redundant power, and what RX was it? Stock power switch? How many flights since the rx was bound to the tx?

I should clarify- 'lockout' versus 'lost control/signal and crashed'. In my friends case, signal was restored just before but too late to prevent the impact.

It is likely that most things that would cause permanent loss of control if intermittent would cause just a lockout event; for this thread we are most concerned about lockouts. Interested in the other failure modes also though.

Like I said, I have many years of flying DSM/ DSM2 but not lots of DSMX experience. DSM2 in my experience has been flawless. Just got a DX18 so now have a DSMX tx... but have not had DSMX->DSMX link firsthand experience.

Originally Posted by flymedic

How many flights since a rebind?
I had similar issues until i started rebinding after i had done any programming or several flights & several days of flying.
Cant really explain why, but it sure seems to have put a stop to brownout/lockout issues

I wonder if a buffer gets filled (like telemetry data) and has no place to be sent to- when the rx handles the buffer, it's thinking about it causes a delay, during which the rx freezes? If so is really crappy programming. Gotta wonder. My DX18 had to go back to Horizon because it could not recover from a failed software 'upgrade'- definitely poor programming/system design on Spektrum's part. Just sayin!

Originally Posted by MaceH

Scary. Sorry for your loss! Nothing should ever have to crash.

Were you using redundant power, and what RX was it? Stock power switch? How many flights since the rx was bound to the tx?

Dual 1100mah A123. AR8000 DSMX. Switches were two JR HD switches. The plane only had about 7 flights on it. I rebound it when I had it "Set-up"

Originally Posted by 3DFTW

Dual 1100mah A123. AR8000 DSMX. Switches were two JR HD switches. The plane only had about 7 flights on it. I rebound it when I had it "Set-up"

Yep, that is basically the setup we use, but the power is dioded to the rx, so a single failed battery or a short at either switch/battery can't down the plane. With as hard an impact as it must have been, not much point in Horizon/Spektrum finding a problem or not with the RX.

So, pretty scary for us. Thanks for the details. I'm assuming that the ignition had a separate power supply?

I can relate that I'm seeing nothing about lockouts of Spektrum stuff (other than 3GX failures, due to ESD) on the heli website forums, the DX7s and AR6210 (or other small rxs) should be really popular with those folks.

I know I said my DSM2 stuff had been bulletproof- well, maybe not- had a Viper racing e sailplane, and a Trex450, go no-signal and into pieces, but really confident those were bec related. Oof.

What was the C rating on the A123 batteries? Digital or analog servos? What many people continuously fail to understand is that digital servos draw a maximum peak current any time they start moving even if the load on the servo is very low. Hyperion sells some small LifePo4 batteries that have very similar chemistry to the A123's. The smaller ones are rated at only 5C. That means that at only 11 amps for the pair you've come close to the maximum continuous C rating of the cell. Add in any potential voltage drop across a dirty switch plus the .7 volts you drop across a forward biased diode and you are treading treacherously close to low voltage on the RX. I have run Hyperion LifePo4 3800 mah batteries rated at 20c in parallel into both JR and Spektrum powersafe recievers for years without incident.

I would say the statement "nothing but lockouts of Spektrum stuff" is an inaccurate reflection of reality. The number of Spektrum users is huge. Even if the failure rate is well within reasonable tolerances the number can seem quite large as the vast majority of people using Spektrum successfully will never post. Between the normal failures which even Futaba suffers, shhhh don't tell the fanboys, and those related to improper setup it's easy to draw conclusions not supported by any reliable evidence.

Speaking of generalizations I usually try and avoid them but lately it's become painfully obvious that there is a "pile on" mentality lately with Spektrum and JR products that is a lot like children finding a common target and bullying him for no better purpose than sport. Once again this crap is NOT supported by a preponderance of the evidence. Contrary to the oft voiced plea that it's all good natured ribbing a close reading of the threads tells a different story. Further this type thing is actually causing economic harm to a company that in my first hand experience has one of the best customer support records in the industry and does much too support all of us.

Originally Posted by MaceH

Yep, that is basically the setup we use, but the power is dioded to the rx, so a single failed battery or a short at either switch/battery can't down the plane. With as hard an impact as it must have been, not much point in Horizon/Spektrum finding a problem or not with the RX.

So, pretty scary for us. Thanks for the details. I'm assuming that the ignition had a separate power supply?

I can relate that I'm seeing nothing about lockouts of Spektrum stuff (other than 3GX failures, due to ESD) on the heli website forums, the DX7s and AR6210 (or other small rxs) should be really popular with those folks.

I know I said my DSM2 stuff had been bulletproof- well, maybe not- had a Viper racing e sailplane, and a Trex450, go no-signal and into pieces, but really confident those were bec related. Oof.

Yes the ignition was isolated on that plane. It just had a seperate 4.8v NiMh battery with a smart-fly kill. On my 71" Slick and 89" OMP I am now using the tech-aero IBEC. Works great.

Originally Posted by Steve Graham

What was the C rating on the A123 batteries? Digital or analog servos? What many people continuously fail to understand is that digital servos draw a maximum peak current any time they start moving even if the load on the servo is very low. Hyperion sells some small LifePo4 batteries that have very similar chemistry to the A123's. The smaller ones are rated at only 5C. That means that at only 11 amps for the pair you've come close to the maximum continuous C rating of the cell. Add in any potential voltage drop across a dirty switch plus the .7 volts you drop across a forward biased diode and you are treading treacherously close to low voltage on the RX. I have run Hyperion LifePo4 3800 mah batteries rated at 20c in parallel into both JR and Spektrum powersafe recievers for years without incident.

I would say the statement "nothing but lockouts of Spektrum stuff" is an inaccurate reflection of reality. The number of Spektrum users is huge. Even if the failure rate is well within reasonable tolerances the number can seem quite large as the vast majority of people using Spektrum successfully will never post. Between the normal failures which even Futaba suffers, shhhh don't tell the fanboys, and those related to improper setup it's easy to draw conclusions not supported by any reliable evidence.

Speaking of generalizations I usually try and avoid them but lately it's become painfully obvious that there is a "pile on" mentality lately with Spektrum and JR products that is a lot like children finding a common target and bullying him for no better purpose than sport. Once again this crap is NOT supported by a preponderance of the evidence. Contrary to the oft voiced plea that it's all good natured ribbing a close reading of the threads tells a different story. Further this type thing is actually causing economic harm to a company that in my first hand experience has one of the best customer support records in the industry and does much too support all of us.

They are rated at 30C. They are great batteries. I am using the same in my current 71" Slick.

http://www.hangtimes.com/a123_packs.html

The downed plane had digital servos. They were lowly 5645s. I used them for years on a 6.0V NiCad. They don't draw much current. However they were destroyed.

I flew my 35% Sukhoi at the time on DSMX with the PowerSafe, two 2300mah A123's directly into that. I never experienced any problems with that setup, but I did not use the radio after the second failure. Just lost trust.

I believe Spektrum has the potential to be a good system but it has a long way to go in my opinion. Until they sort it out I will not be buying anymore of their products.

unfortunately... lots of people will ask you about the setup.... trying to find fault with your friends setup....
and prolly in the end... it is another sp'wrecked'em incident....

Sorry to hear of the Mystery Mash.... Hopefully his plane is easily repairable...

It just had a seperate 4.8v NiMh battery with a smart-fly kill

In a true loss of signal event wouldn't the smart fly shut the motor down?