KM, how did you ever come up with that cool diagram?

KM, how did you ever come up with that cool diagram? It looks like an engineer drew it. I have been studying the inputs. It looks like every elevator/rudder deflection is helping to turn the plane. I guess the hits at the 45deg angles give a component of turn and help keep the nose up..??

i cant think of it like that, my mind goes nuts... i think of it as a constant steady stick pattern. lets say im doing rolling harriers to the right. in order to turn right while rolling, i slow the speed of the pattern down and make the inputs larger. to turn left, i do the same, just speed up instead of slow down.

Originally Posted by plydrms

KM, how did you ever come up with that cool diagram? It looks like an engineer drew it. I have been studying the inputs. It looks like every elevator/rudder deflection is helping to turn the plane. I guess the hits at the 45deg angles give a component of turn and help keep the nose up..??

I drew it in photoshop. but ya, the diagram shows the "ideal" input of where you'll get with practice. there's little tricks you can do to help along the way, but this is the end goal. Commonly, people will choose a primary input (for me it was elevator) and they control the direction with that, and then try and halve the input timing on this primary control with the input of the other... so I'd control where the plane was going with the elevator and then try and half whatever that timing was with my rudder changes. with enough practice, over time you'll just naturally steer the plane with both tail surfaces without needing to wait for something to line up with your primary input...

Originally Posted by tomascratchbuild

i cant think of it like that, my mind goes nuts... i think of it as a constant steady stick pattern. lets say im doing rolling harriers to the right. in order to turn right while rolling, i slow the speed of the pattern down and make the inputs larger. to turn left, i do the same, just speed up instead of slow down.

...you're right, it's just about the timing on the pattern, but most people don't understand the stick pattern of what they want to do. The diagram is there to help them basically figure out the stick pattern...

Originally Posted by theKM

...you're right, it's just about the timing on the pattern, but most people don't understand the stick pattern of what they want to do. The diagram is there to help them basically figure out the stick pattern...

oh believe me, it makes so much sense its incredible... hats off to you, it was very well done!

Ill try to make a sim vid tonight for ya. In slo-mo i can control my inputs for rolling rright turning right, and i dont have to reverse rudder or anything. But as soon as i go "full-mo" i get all mixed up. Ill try it some more tonight.

KM, thanks a lot. You're diagram is such a good reference tool. I start out a session on 50% rate to check my inputs. Then I try 100% for awhile to check the progress. I usually have to go back to 50% after that for more refinement. Then I start to over-think instead of just letting her flow. Now, everybody always says the inputs are the same as the slow roll. That's only for a non-turning slow roll, right? Technically speaking, are the inputs for a rolling circle the same as your photoshop diagram?
-Rob

Originally Posted by plydrms

KM, thanks a lot. You're diagram is such a good reference tool. I start out a session on 50% rate to check my inputs. Then I try 100% for awhile to check the progress. I usually have to go back to 50% after that for more refinement. Then I start to over-think instead of just letting her flow. Now, everybody always says the inputs are the same as the slow roll. That's only for a non-turning slow roll, right? Technically speaking, are the inputs for a rolling circle the same as your photoshop diagram?
-Rob

The inputs are the same for turning in a slow roll as well. It just takes more to keep the nose up in a harrier roll.

The movement on the sticks is all about timing. It's like tapping your head and rolling your stomach at the same time. You are asking your brain to do, two complete opposite movementsIt's all about PRACTICE AND TIMING and for me 2 yrs

Thanks, Rob. I guess that you just have to keep grinding it out. It seems like the answer is stick time!

Originally Posted by plydrms

Thanks, Rob. I guess that you just have to keep grinding it out. It seems like the answer is stick time!

You got it. Many many hours of practice. Frustrating as hell at times, but definitely the key. It'll seem like you'll never get it, then all of a sudden something works right and it clicks. Once that happens, the rest gets easier to grasp. You know the fundamentals and have a good understanding of the stick inputs. Making it all work right is dependent on how much time you put into practice. You're on your way. Just stay at it.

I'm enjoying following along with this thread. I've finally come to my senses and started doing most of my roller practice with decent foamies instead of multi-thousand dollar planes. On rare occasions I can get a decent roll going, but haven't come near to figuring out how to make it go where I want it to go. It'll come with time though I'm sure. When I first started flying, the same thing happened. I just concentrated on keeping the darn thing in the air, and it mostly went where it wanted to. Now of course, steering comes easily. I'm just having fun with the learning process, and when I'm able to get a nice roll going, I just let it go and try to keep it going. I know that the finer control will come with time.

Originally Posted by Phil Griffin

I'm enjoying following along with this thread. I've finally come to my senses and started doing most of my roller practice with decent foamies instead of multi-thousand dollar planes. On rare occasions I can get a decent roll going, but haven't come near to figuring out how to make it go where I want it to go. It'll come with time though I'm sure. When I first started flying, the same thing happened. I just concentrated on keeping the darn thing in the air, and it mostly went where it wanted to. Now of course, steering comes easily. I'm just having fun with the learning process, and when I'm able to get a nice roll going, I just let it go and try to keep it going. I know that the finer control will come with time.

Hey! Phil, I am 47 yrs old and find it much longer and harder to learn 3D manuvers. Also, i feel little more cautious with my thousand dollar planes.

Me too. I just joined the forum and all this experience out here has really inspired me to practice. I feel like there is an instructor pilot in my living room..ha. Understanding the aerodynamics is good. I really have to break stuff down before I can apply it. But like Rob said, it all comes down to coordinating that stick timing. It's happening too fast to think about it. It's like ground hog day with every sim session. I have to review the inputs again. I'm trying not to think of the tail surfaces being used to hold up the nose. Somebody else described it as "steering" the nose around. This seems to be a better way to visualize the turning. It's more of a struggle to just focus on keeping the nose from falling. It's like your whole mission is to just limp it around 1 time without stuffing it!